Discovering Cryptids: Fact, Fiction, and the Creatures In Between

In this episode of Wildly Curious (formerly For the Love of Nature), co-hosts Katy Reiss and Laura Fawks Lapole dive into the mysterious world of cryptids—creatures that exist in folklore but lack definitive proof of existence. From Bigfoot to the Chupacabra, they explore cryptids from around the world, discussing famous sightings, theories, and the science (or lack thereof) behind these mythical animals. Are cryptids simply tall tales or do they have roots in reality? Tune in to find out!

Perfect for cryptozoology enthusiasts, skeptics, and anyone who loves a good mystery from the wild.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to For The Love of Nature, a podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature and probably more than you wanted to know. I'm Laura. And I'm Katie. And today we're gonna be talking about another episode of Crypto Zoology. Yeah, yeah. You know those animals that some claim are real, others claim are not. Jury's still out on some things. I mean, listen, once again, I know I keep bringing this up, but over Covid, the US government announced that UFOs are real I did mine. I'm never letting anyone forget this. I'm never going to, because I still to this day will bring that up and there's always somebody in the room that'll go, what? I'm like, here we go. Lesson learned. And the people who are like really close to like work colleagues and stuff who have heard my spiel every single time, they just laugh cuz they know what's coming. But if the government admits that there's UFOs that. Cannot be of like any known human technology. Yeah. Something's gotta be flying it. And then the other one I did was Bigfoot Hide and go seek champion. Yeah. Your Bigfoot story's the last time. Or giving me the heebie gbs. I still think about it every once in a while and it's just, give me the shivers. There are some really creepy gardening and the one was like leaning against a tree, watching her. Yes. Heck no. Move that very day. Yeah. I would too. Because you could feel like, yeah, you just feel like you're being watched. Then you look up because that's always anytime you're outside, you know what I mean? Like that's always your back of the mind fear. Well, and I Right for sure the back of the mind fear. But like the, you know, the woods is like my happy place. It no longer be my happy place. No. If I thought somebody was out there freaking terrified. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be done. I couldn't do it anymore. Yeah. All right, so before we jump into that, do you, did you have Nature News? Yeah, I was just gonna bring up something real quick. This article is titled Good News Found After Analysis of Wolf Discovered in New York. So this was, this is just published but a wolf was killed in December of 2021 in Cherry Valley, which is a, was in Otago County, New York. And although that was a while ago, for over a year, they thought it was a coyote that had been killed, but I guess they were doing some DNA stuff with it. And so it's actually given some insight into, you know, potential wolf populations in New York state and doing some different, like DNA stuff. They can actually tell what an animal was eating prior, which is just, you know, pretty crazy cool. Yeah. So they don't what, from what they could find, the wolf had not been feeding on any. like domesticated livestock, which is good news. So like Yeah. Very good news because they are moving into the state, not to worry. Yeah. And that it had never been domesticated at any point in its life because it hadn't ever eaten that kind of stuff. So it was a truly wild wolf. That's crazy. Yeah. So there are a lot of areas in the United States now where wolves are actually starting to move south. They're expanding their territories, they're adapting more, and they're interbreeding with coyotes. So, you know, coy wolfs is a term that some more and more people are hearing about. So we don't have to be afraid of large predators. Mm-hmm. we just have to be aware if they're around. But yeah. Kind of a cool thing that, you know, wow, what if wolves really come back to New York state and then that's just a hop, skip and a jump from Pennsylvania. Yeah, no, it really is. That's kind of like, the top down here. Still there have been more and more because Jaguars in Texas used to be. Native here. Not so much anymore, but there's still always folks that are gonna say, oh, hey I've spotted that. Uh, get it. Um mm-hmm. So that, you know, they're, they, it's the big cats. So we have we have Ocelots, yeah, ocelots here. Which are spotted. Yeah. Which are spotted really big. No, so freaking, so freaking small. And then there are the jaggies jago undies that are, that I don't, they don't look anything. They almost look more like you're Otter like kind of the cat otter. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not the same. I don't even know how to, they're a cat. A cat Otter. Yeah. Cat Otter, I guess. Just a weird creature. But yeah, so there, there's always like reports of people saying that there's jaguars. I don't think, but that's like in Pennsylvania too constantly. I can't tell you the amount of people that have told me that they have seen, heard or know someone that has seen or heard a mountain lion. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think I've told this story before about the one time I was running in Western Pennsylvania, like on our property and I Oh, the Bobcat found a bobcat, yeah. That I was running around and I was just running laps. Cause I used to play soccer and so I was running, we had seven acres and so I was running around the yard. you know, when I say yard, you know it's seven acres, so right. Little bit, little bit bigger. And one of our smallest dog, who was just a SAS pot and a half daisy, she was barking at something in the weeds and I figured it was a neighbor's cat or whatever. And so it was her and then our black lab at the time, and they were just barking, barking, barking. And I went over, pulled him back, pulled the, like the high grass apart and it was just a bobcat sitting there, hiss and just panting. Scared. The beji. Oh yeah. It was clearly terrified but scared. The beji outta me. Oh, I'm sure I ran back so fast. I mean, thankfully Daisy's 26 pounds and so, you know, so she was tiny, so I could just swoop her up and run, run with her over my shoulder kind of thing. Yeah. The black lab he was a good protective dog, but still a black lab, so he's just like, okay, I'm coming. Yeah, we're coming with you two kind of thing. But yeah, so Bobcats I would see a lot, but yeah. Jaguars down here, that would be kind of crazy. I think the last time one was officially spotted in Texas, I wanna say was like the forties or fifties, like the last official, official one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mountain lions. I wouldn't, I know there are. Oh yeah. So, so I wouldn't be surprised if you had Mountain Lion. Yeah, no, we definitely, yeah. Definitely have Mountain Lion and there's a Central America and mm-hmm. Mexico and stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And like down by Big Bend National Park and everything. I mean, there's just nothing Yeah. Out there. And that habitat just crazy. Crazy. Alrighty. So do you wanna talk about, I mean, things that Cryptids Yeah. Some things that also have reports, but may or may not Yeah. Be really there. Yeah. Let me, my two. let me think here. You got a good segue. Otherwise I'll go. No, you can, you can. Both of mine. One I've never heard of before, which I always love coming across stuff I've never heard of. I too, I have one that I know well and one that I've never heard of. Yeah. The one I've never heard of. And then the one I have heard of. But I didn't realize the origins of where it came from. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, yeah. But you can let it go first if you want. Well, I was gonna say, because we were just talking about Bigfoot, I would like to talk about the Chik. Ooh. Which is a very similar Uhhuh and I had never heard of it before, but I was like, oh, what's this? And then look more into it and was like, Ooh. Mm-hmm. So it's pretty much the Siberian version of Bigfoot with some key differences. So it is described as a human-like with broad shoulders, a large protruding brow, long matted hair, no neck, and occasionally bearing unusually co colored body hair or fur. I always have to describe them like so ugly, you know what I mean? Yeah. Poor, poor Bigfoot. They're like but the big difference between them and Bigfoot is that. They are often reported as wearing animal skins, making them more human than Bigfoot. So like they wear like reindeer hides. Yeah. And Bigfoot never wears clothes. just out their free balling. We're in Siberia, so like Yeah. Can't blame'em. It's cold. Yeah. Yeah. They're also called Mullin, meaning bandits because they have been known to, or it's been said that they've do midnight raids on Barnes and dwellings. I mean, if there's gonna be anything that would live someplace that we would have no clue it would be Siberia. Siberia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just a vast land of nothing. Yeah. And another difference between it and Bigfoot, although I didn't find much information about this. Just in passing, just as a little sprinkle of that Yeah. And sometimes How do you, how do you spell it? Flesh. Ew. That's us So possibly, uh, it's spelled different ways. So the, okay. You can do C H u c h U N A A or y a or the mullen, which is m u l e n. Still the same thing. So yeah. Just looks like the drawing depictions just look like, almost like a huge neanderthal, right? Exactly. Yes. So, but the one picture that I saw was just totally a neanderthal. But this one they are saying is covered in hair, so it's like a hairy, really hairy, big, giant person. Usually described as like seven feet tall. Okay. Yeah. Um, the reports are coming from rural, rural, boy, that's a hard word, rural Siberia. Which is such a funny concept. Yeah. Cause it isn't all of Siberia. So like listeners, if anyone's from Siberia, I'm sorry, but I picture it as there's just being nothing there. Most accounts are coming from the northeast, although there is the occasional southeast one, and they are possibly living in the mountains or on the tundra in that area. Typically, the reports are coming from native Siberians, such as the, and guys, I'm sorry, I get it's probably the Yacus or the peoples. Sometimes other rural people. But those in the main ones is the native peoples that are reporting this. And these reports are hundreds of years old with native people's stories going back even longer, like possibly thousands of years. So let's get into some of these reports. These reports were taken. Seriously. I mean, like I said, there, there's been, it's been going on for hundreds of years, but things really started being taken seriously in 1928 when the Soviet Union sent out search parties because they were like, oh, geez, all right. Like, let's go find, let's get this. Yeah. Yeah. There was actually a formal report made on the chia that was presented to the commission for the discovery and study of antiquarian curiosities, uh, attached to the Western Siberian section of the Russian Geographical Society. So lots of stuff there, but there was an official report made, and the report recommended that detailed investigations and systematic studies occur before the Chichen became extinct. So, huh. They believed it was there. It. like something interesting was gonna go away. And so in 1933 there was a professor that called upon the government to abolish the hunting of these people on the grounds that all people of the U S S R deserved equal protection. But little was done about it. Um, so apparently they were being hunted if they were there. Yeah. Um, various scientists. Yeah. Cuz then, because then like, all right, so then you have to ask the question like, how far did this go? Okay. Let's just say if it was a myth, were there that many people willing to be like, yeah, I hunted one and I got it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a, there's been a number of scientists who've been like, yep. So in 1970s, one of the geologists, so these surveys actually went on for a long time through the geographical society. Like they were doing other things, but I guess while they're out there, they were also seeing it I mean, while we're out here, let's just log this. Yeah. You know, big creature. So in 1970s, a geologist out there was hearing lots of local tales, but concluded that the chiia must be dying out, like if it was probably gone by 1970. But in 1985, there was a British Anth, British anthropologist who claimed to have seen one with her own eyes. That in particular, Cunya was dubbed Cheney, AK the marked one, because he had a white patch on his forearm. And so that's what the locals called him. Hmm. And she said she saw him a newspaper reported on a story that in 1957, hunters killed a cunya and brought back its body, but that body disappeared when they brought it back to town. Of course you did. Yeah. In 2001 and 2002, reports of strange ape-like creatures were found in. One was the size of a large dog covered in hair except for face and feet and had a tail. And then there are several versions about what happened to that body. Again, gone, but for many different reasons, possibly, also only the size of a large dog then. Then it must have been a kid like, yeah, right. Yeah. Ooh. And then the other actually had golden colored fur, and that guy found it in the wilderness and left it there. Which I mean, they say, I mean, just like any animal, there's, you know, color variations, but I know with Bigfoot, yeah. I mean, there's all sorts of color variations, so, yeah. Well, right. And I guess if, if it was very humanoid, it could have different colored hair just like we do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There were tales of a strange being wandering the remote forest of tunguska near the scenes of devastation. Okay. So I was like, what does that mean? Scenes of devastation? What does that mean? Katie? I've never heard about this. No. So the tunguska blast happened in 19 19 0 8 when a 12 megaton explosion. Okay. Just that's giant. Yeah. 12 megaton explosion, flattened, 830 square miles of forest, possibly killing three people and s maybe right? I guess who knows who was living out there. Exactly. Like they don't even know that. And also that in 830 square miles there might have been three people. Um, yeah. Right. but. If you look at these pictures, it looks like an atomic bomb went off there. And so sci, what scientists think happened though, this was in 1908, was likely an atmospheric explosion when 160 to 200 foot asteroid entered Earth's atmosphere and exploded in the atmosphere. So there's no impact crater, but it is the only asteroid that we know of in human life. Like in our lifetime. Like in, I think I have heard about this. Yeah. Because of that. Like there, that's the only thing I, this is the only time. This is that hu. While humans have been around. Yeah. Reporting. I think that's the history. I think that's the only thing that I know like that triggers something. I'm like, oh yeah, that's it. If an asteroid was gonna hit the planet that it decided to hit Siberia, Siberia, not like India or you know. Yeah. Oh goodness. No impact crater. It's a weird place. Okay. Yeah. So back to the Chiia. So there are tales of a strange being who wanders that devastated area. The nomadic reindeer herdsman of Siberia have reported ci a gigantic gray humanoid figure. About 50 miles north of that river. They saw a man who seemed to be over eight feet in height picking berries and drinking water from a stream. And he's just living his good life out there. Like, just leave him alone. his mind and his business, mon Mongol herdsman have also reported seeing them and others who have so supposedly investigated one of man's greatest mysteries. The Tunguska blast have also claimed to have seen the chia. So is there a connection the world may never know? Yeah. So where is this coming from? Actually, unlike some of the other ones, you know, I did the CPAC Cobra last time and there was some very clear cut, like, where is this coming from? Yes, animals me, manji animals, There really is no clear cut. What this could be. Well, because I mean, possibly it's so isolated. I'm okay. Listen, just Well, it's these, I mean, stories of humanoid hair, humanoid creatures are literally reported all over the world. There there are, there are. We've got Bigfoot. Yes, there's the Yeti. We've got this. So, so Could it be really. big hairy dudes. Or could it have just been some guy out there wearing like a giant for Exactly. That's what I was gonna say. It's, it, it's so isolated. It literally could be like a man with gigantic theism, you know what I mean? That just like, yeah, it's hereditary. They just keep to themselves. They see people every once in a while and they just decided to stay away. You know what I mean? The who knows. The only other thing that some people have put forth and I'm like, maybe, maybe they were possibly a remnant, paleo Asiatic people, or some people say Neanderthals, although Neanderthals were believed to have went extinct 40,000 years ago. Yeah. And only ever reached heights of five and a half feet. Yeah. This is significantly taller. But a Paleo Asiatic people like just some other, like some other thing. Yeah. Super primitive. Not, we're not talking missing link here, but like some, it's a different branch. Primitive humanoid. maybe, because remember we've talked about this in the podcast before. There were wooly mammoth still living in the Arctic circle mm-hmm. until 1650 bc which is not actually that long. That long. No, it's not that long ago at all. So if they, if the wooly ma and, and w where there people are seeing this we are within, in Siberia is part of it is in the Arctic circle. Yeah. Like where they're finding and seeing these people. Yeah. This is where they're finding like wooly mammoth carcasses. Yeah. And, uh, wooly rhino carcasses and things. Yeah. So maybe a primitive people could survive that long. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's so, it's probably if they were, it's so isolated. It's true that they probably did die out Yeah. In this century. Because let's be real, people would have hunted them if they were like, this is terrifying. Yeah. Terrifying. Yeah. And you know, everybody talks about that's where may or may not people have been crossing the barrier straight and where all of our ancestors have come from. So, maybe a primitive people, I don't know. Hopefully they're not actually eating flesh of people because geez, again, definitely you're asking to be hunted to extinction in that case. I was gonna say it, it just goes back to the fear like humans are very much so fear induced, like just it's scary. Kill it. Yeah. When, when it comes to anything like of mystery and so, yeah. But yeah the anthropologist saying that she saw the one that they named is interesting. Yeah. Cuz And you, if it wasn't chaun, was it just a person with gigantic cism who was Harry and they just kept that person? Or they or they are like primitive, poor pe you know, peoples of the land, they don't have normal clothing. They do, they are hunting whatever's out there. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, and like more so. More so than the aboriginal people who live there right now. Like the Yes. People who are reporting them are considered natives. Yeah. But like we're talking like Right primitive. Primitive, primitive. Possibly. Not even in like language speaking. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like if it were to happen, it would be in Siberia, cuz there's Yeah, there are in some deep jungle somewhere. Yeah. Dang crazy. Yeah. All righty. Well the first one that I'm gonna do is, this one I have never heard of, and it's the black shuck. No, no, I hadn't heard of it either. S H u C K. Yep. Like okay. Yep. Like shucking corn. Yep. That's what I was just gonna, I was gonna say I was like, I don't, I don't wanna show my Western Pennsylvania too much, but like shucking corn Um, so the black shuck is a ghostly black dog that is said to Rome at the coastline and countryside of East Angular England. The black. Okay. I, this is ringing a bell. Yeah. From stories that I've read, but I don't know if I did, knew it was called the black shuck. I No clue. No clue. So the origins and the legends are, again, kind of unclear because kind of like the chupacabra. They think it's a, like a black gangly dog. So there's tons of reasons of what it could be, but right where it came from. So what's making it not a normal dog? Yeah, well, so it does date back centuries and is well known, well, very well known British folklore. The origins of the legend are unclear, but is believed to have been passed through oral tradition. So again, just one story after another. Some believe that the name shuck may have been derived from the old English word which means demonn or devil. So that's intense. Yeah. So black. Black devil. The location of where the legend come from is primarily the coastal regions of East Anglo, which includes the countries of Norfolk and Sofo Suffolk. The area has a long history of folklore and superstition with tales of witches, ghosts, and other supernatural creatures dating back centuries. So this is already an area that does talk about legends and folklore and all kinds of stuff. Anyway, so it's just like, let's just add another one to, to the mix here. Yeah. So there are various versions of the BackCheck legend, but most of'em describe a large black dog that appears on dark stormy nights, often accompanied by thunder and lightning. The dog is, and this, sorry, go ahead. This is on which side of Britain? Uh, you said it was the East? No wait, it just coastal regions of East Angular. Okay. And CLO includes the counties of Norfolk and Suffolk. No. Nor focus Suffolk. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. Keep going. Yep. So let's see here. So, yeah, so it appears in Stormy nights, accompanied by thunder and lightning, the dog is said to have glowing red eyes and be the size of a calf or even larger. Some versions of the story describe the black shuck as a harbinger of death or a symbol of impending doom. Yikes. This is for all you Harry Potter fans out there. This is the Grim. It's a dog. It's like a black dog that, that says you're gonna die. Oh. I'm not a Harry Potter nerd, but that's definitely where this is like that. Gotcha. That came from, that's a perversion of it. Yeah. I mean, if it's well-known British, it would make sense. Definit. So, yeah, so it's a symbol of death or impending doom. Others suggest that the creature is a protector watching over the people of that area and warding off evil spirits. So you have some people that are like, Nope, this is all bad. You have other, and then others that are like, Nope. It's protecting us. Opposite, yes. Opposite translation. Yeah. For interpretations, I should say. So, as far as sightings go, there have been several firsthand accounts of seeing the creature. One of the most famous sightings occurred in 1577 in the town of Blythe. Blackberg and Suffolk, according to the account, a large black dog burst into the church during a thunderstorm and killed two people before just disappearing. Yay. Go. So clearly. It's not like a normal dog if it's just gonna bust into a church of all places. Very least a rabid dog. Yeah. But busted into a church during a storm and Oh, right. You'd definitely be thinking demon. You're like, yeah, this is, this is Satan. Yeah. Another notable sighting occurred in 1901 when a man walking home from a pub claimed to have been chased by a large black dog with glowing eyes, which again, let's just pause A man walking alone home from a pub. And he said that he saw large black dog with glowing. From a bar and also glow eyes. Like as many of us animal people know, many animals experience the red eye effect. Yes. Or eye shine. When light is shining into their eyes, they glow, but also saw if the light was coming. You know what I mean? But the sobriety of the man is also questionable. Yeah. I'm not judging him. He was, even if he was so cold sober Yeah. It could still, could've still seen glowing eyes and in 19 Oh be, yeah. And in, in 1901, they're, he's not gonna necessarily know that. Other accounts describe encounters with black shuck, und deserted roads or an isolated fields. Dude, I would literally poop my pants. Right? This is, okay. This, this right here. This is little Laura's nightmare. Okay. Because my growing up, my greatest fear was of black wolves for many reasons. Interesting. Started with Beauty and the beast, and then the next thing or. If not eating the beast, then definitely the never ending story. Cause that terrified iconic wolf. Yes. Then there was, there was a movie called Benji about a little dog. Oh yeah. And, and there was a black, and that tried to eat him. So little R was like, black wolves are horrible. So for the next, like, I don't know, eight to 10 years I would see that wolf in my basement in the hallway at night. I terrified. So like me grown up, Laura, just having an experience with some like cold black dog on a back road. I would first of all never be on a back road alone by myself, But I would just, just died, be done here. Like I would be dead. It would've pretended my death because I would've died of a heart attack. Yeah, right. Well, besides you, there were numerous sightings and reports over the c. Again, there's no concrete evidence that the black shuck exists. Skeptics argue that sightings are simply the result of people's imaginations or the exaggeration of natural phenomenon, such as large dogs, you know, and then like the thunderstorm. Yeah. If you see a German shepherd at night be freaking terrifying. Yes. Or like a lot of them can be black or like an Irish wolf hound and who are, or massive. Yes. Yeah. So however, those who believe that the legend of the black shuck. they do have some basis in re in reality here. So some historians have suggested that the legend may have been based on the presence from the presence of large black dogs owned by Vikings who settled in the area centuries ago. So they brought over like big, large, like protecting dogs. Yeah. That were black and then they just either got away whatever had, you know, feral dogs, whatever. Others have suggested that the legend may have been inspired by ancient Celtic legends of spectral dogs that roamed the countryside. So again, just more legends. Yeah, this is very similar and it reminds me of what's the, there's a Sherlock Holmes, the Hound of the Baskervilles. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's very much like that too. So in addition to these tales of sightings, the legend of black shuck has also inspired numerous works of art and literature. Over the years, the creature has appeared in everything from local folk songs and modern horror movies. In recent years, there's been run out interest, like re, sorry, renowned renewed interest in the legends with various groups organizing black shuck themed events and tours in the area. That's hilarious. So they're kind of like embracing it now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in conclusion, the black shuck is the well-known legend in the British folklore and has been passed down from centuries to centuries and. whether or not it's, I mean, obviously some people are gonna embrace it, others are still gonna be terrified of it, but we'll see. But they're still ran. There's not as many sightings as what's as what their once was. Yeah. So again, they were saying like, that was more backing to the basis of the whole Vikings brought over huge dogs. Yeah. That they've died out, so because they're like, yeah, we're just not seeing'em all that much anymore. So, or I was just looking up, you know, I mean this is, this in particular animal, this is classic like deep subconscious human fear. Oh, it is a predator in the night. Yeah. Something creepy. Yeah. And although wolves, so the last wolf in England was killed in the 14th century. So that was a long time ago, and that's a freaking island. Hundreds. But you're also on an island like a, it's a large island, but still You're on an island. Yeah. They kill a, they killed the last wolf there, but where they killed the last wolf was in the county, south of Suffolk. Okay. Okay. So the last place in England, they saw wolves, was that side that, okay. That kind of area. Yeah. So if like this could also have been local people's telling your kids like, don't go out at night. Yes. Because literally there's a wolf out there and we'll eat you. That has transformed into this dog. Or people saw remnants of the last of the wolves. Yep. And then no. Very well, yeah. Crazy. But yeah, that was one I'd never heard of before. Yeah. I'd never, I don't think I knew that's the name. Yep. I heard black like that the legend kind of thing, but not the name. Well, now you know, The more you know. Right. Well, something I've heard a lot about but still had a lot of interest. I, so I've never do Dove super into the legend, so this was a fun exercise. I just knew a lot about it, general stuff. And it's the moth man. This is a good one. Yeah, this is a good one. This is one that is close enough to where I grew up that it, yeah. Once you, once you were old enough to hear about this, you're like never going there, ever. Right. Because it's like I, again, this is, and I know we, there are lots of layers to this too. There, there, there are so many freaking layers. Again, this is the same, I hold the principle with this one as I do with ghosts and like boards and everything like that. Whether or not I believe in it or not, don't care. She's side of caution. I am not messing with it. Like, just no. Like whenever people like, you know, teenager growing up, that's not feel about Ouija boards. Yeah. Why? I'm not, I'm not sure I believe in them or not. I'm just not. I'm just not. I definitely will never just please. No, no. And this is the same thing with going to this town and ev like No, no. I'm fine. Well let's dive in. Okay. So this is actually a relatively recent crypted. It is as far as Cryptids go because this all started in the 1960s, so point Pleasant West Virginia, um, in between PA and Ohio. The, these sightings started to happen. So first let me describe what people were seeing and then we'll talk about the sightings themself. So, moth man is described as a six to seven foot tall creature, humanoid in shape, giant, bright red eyes, a 10 foot wing span and basically described as like a man but with wings. Yep. Which is really creepy. Mm-hmm. uh, really creepy because the mo moth man makes you think a giant moth. No, kind of, but like this is just a dude with wings. Yes. Which is really creepy. And it's also described as being a clumsy runner, but a good flyer I mean, to be fair, if it was real, to do both. Yeah. But to be fair, if it has adapted to flying, it doesn't really need to run well. Right. But I guess makes it then more adapted to aerial life then. So, so yes. Human annoyed but not human cuz humans are good runners. So on November 12th of 1966, I'm already getting like Heebies but continue I'm just gonna, well cuz there's just too much information too. I had to dig. There's a lot. There's so much on the moth man. So grave diggers. also, like I love that this is starting off with grave Digg grave diggers. Yeah. Grave diggers looked up to see a brown human being soaring from tree to tree above them. F No. Which again, I would die of a heart attack if I saw Yes, you're a grave digger. First of all, you're already like, you're already like freaked out senses are on high alert and then, yeah, and then you see some giant humanoid creature soaring from tree to tree. I would, Nope. I would put down my shovel and I would just calmly walk away and be like, this is my re resignation. I'm done. Three days later, this is the big one. This is where it all started in the news because those guys didn't report anything. Mm-hmm. I guess until later. Yeah. So on November 15th, 1966, four people were driving on Route 62 near the National Guard Armory Building and a Power and the Power. This area I dug much more into it. It's called the t n T area. So back in World War ii, this area was in munitions like depot, like they made mm-hmm. munitions for World War ii. So they made T N T and they made some other things there. And so there's all these underground bunkers that are kind of being reclaimed by nature and like the whole place is being reclaimed by nature. But that there is talk that either there are still things stored there, or at the very least, that a lot of these materials are toxic and seeping back into the land. So it's already like a creepy place. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Old World War ii munitions, bunkers. Yeah. Right. So that's where they're driving by. Linda Scarber, one of the women who was in the car described seeing a slender muscular man about seven feet tall with white wings, which that the whole colors are always changing with moth. Yes. Yeah. But tall with white wings. And then said she was unable to dis discern its face due to the hypnotic effect of its eyes distressed. The witnesses drove away at speed and said that the creature flew after their car making a screeching sound. It pursued them as far as point, pleasant city limits. And it, they were going a hundred miles per hour because they were terrified. Yeah. And they said it was keeping up with them. So they were saying it was flying like a hundred miles per hour. They were eight more sightings over the next several days. Two were volunteer firefighters who saw a bird with large red eye, like a giant bird with large red eyes. Another guy in a nearby town saw weird patterns on his TV and heard noises outside. When he went out with a flashlight, he saw two large red eyes. That resembled bicycle reflectors and his German shepherd ran into the woods after them. And his dog was never seen it. He never found his dog again. He just found Paul Prince going around in his circles and then gone then nothing. Nope. No prints leading away or there just gone dog. Mm-hmm. Nope. Um, that's also when I would move. Yeah. Nope. Nope. That, that, uh, then it's, it's, you're, you're on the border of West Virginia and Ohio. There's about a hundred thousand other places. I would rather move me. No. Move to, I'd be okay leaving. So then, and then just more and more sightings. So there was like this frenzy of sightings in 1966. Then in 1967, so almost, it's actually a year. To the day. Yep. Okay. That these first people, not the grave diggers, but the newspaper people saw November 15th, on December 15th, 1967, the Silver Bridge collapsed in Point Pleasant. This bridge was built back in 1928 for much lighter cars. The cars at the time were about 1500 pounds. And then the average weight of a car in the sixties was five or 4,000 pounds. So like weighing times as heavy as what that bridge was built for. And traffic was really heavy on the bridge that day. And because that bridge was built for lighter cars, they had built no redundancy into that bridge. And redundancy is like a fail safe. Yeah. So let's say now when you build bridges, if one part cracks, the entire bridge doesn't collapse because they've built in extra stops. But at the time, they didn't do that. So one piece snapped on the Ohio side of the bridge and the entire bridge fell apart within moments. Plunging all of the cars and people into the Ice Cold River. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 46 people were drowned or were crushed by the bridge. Oh, so many. Yeah. So many 46 people. It's just, yeah, it's just sad. And so, also one of my biggest fears. Yeah. Oh my gosh. In a car for sure. I actually have, I have, I've had nightmares about that. Well, I have one of those car window breaker thingies that are like in my car's, like door that I actually have Velcro to like the inside of the door. You know what I mean? That like, it, it's like a little hammer. It's a, yeah. It's like a, yeah. Because yeah, that's definitely a huge fear of mine. Mm-hmm. um, some people believe, so some. Now, where does this connect with Moth Man? Some people believe that the Moth man was either responsible for this or was the harbinger of Doom very much like the black shuck? Because wasn't he spotted near, near the Yeah, I mean, depending on who you say. Yeah. Who says. it's just, so a lot of people were like, listen, this happened a year to the day and all of a sudden sightings, most sightings of Moth man stopped after that day. Yeah. So it was like, that was like the, the final capsule. And then he was gone because cuz I read, I read a lot of reports that said that like they saw him like nearby then after that big mass death gone. Yeah. Just like nothing. And so in 1975, a non-fiction in air quotes, because I think this very much depends on who you ask. Yeah. the non-fiction book, moth Man Prophecies came out and so the author of that connected the dots between Moth Man and what happened on that bridge. Yep. Then he also talked about how there's lots of other weird things about what could have been going on that people in the area were having, um, like, uh, pre-cognition, like they were. people were seeing what was gonna happen ahead of time, all this stuff. In 1999 there were actually sightings in Moscow of a similar creature, and later that year there were apartment building bombings. Hmm. Um, so those people connected the dots there saying again, look what's happened. This thing shows up and then a bunch of people die. And then in 2016, in Point Pleasant, a man saw a large creature jumping from tree to tree and he snapped pictures. And you guys can see the pictures online. Yep. They are pretty freaky. Yeah. But most people think it's just an owl carrying a snake, but he's like, no freaking way. That's not what I saw. And then in 2019 there was actually like, so, so during there was hundreds of reports made. Yeah. During that year in Point, pleasant, there was like 50 something people in total who said that they saw him in Chicago in 2019. So he's still around, possibly just in different places. Is it the same creature? Is it different creatures? Are there more of them? And if you want to know more, there is a Moth Man museum with all the police reports and witness accounts located in Point Pleasant. And they have a Moth Man festival every year. It's very much a culture and part of the town, and it's great for them, for tourism and things like that. And it really hit the national stage in 2002 when they made a, a film out of it, which is what I saw as a kid. I was Yeah, mock man prophecies. Yeah. 12. And I was like, this is it. It was with Richard Gear and it was terrifying. Yeah, it is creepy, even though you only see the Monster wants. Yep. It's more about the It's the idea of it mind. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a whole mind blow thing. So what's actually going on? Okay, I'm gonna start. do you want me to start? Most likely or least likely? Oh, go ahead. I don't, uh, do least likely first. Okay. Least likely. Okay. Um, military experiment. If it was in the area of this munitions factory, what else was it? Yeah. Was it really am you know, an ammunitions factory or not? So military experiment gone wrong. Of course we're going aliens. Okay. Because the guy in the moth man prophecies ties this to, you know, that guy up with saw weird patterns on his TV happening. There were visits from men in black at the time to this town. Of course there were these, these sightings, So like was it, was it because they knew it was something? Was it not? Because I knew was something it would explain all the precognition that people had. It would explain the weird, like it would explain a lot. Yeah. If it's an alien um, let's just take it as an alien cuz that'll help. Yeah. A Bard owl. Some people are like, it's just an owl. Because that would explain the red eyes, like the cuz of the eye shine. True. I don't know, man. That's a big stretch. Yeah. You'd have to be really wasted to think a bar out, a bared owl, A 10 foot wings band. Yeah. Um, and I know pe people exaggerate, but that's a, that's a bit much, that's a big one. Also, most people in the area are probably familiar with barred owls. Yeah. Or, or at least just owls in general, you know. Yeah. It very much resembles what they consider a demonn archetype that people see during sleep paralysis. A lot of people describe a very similar creature that they see Yeah. During sleep paralysis, which means that that image is somewhere in the human subconscious. Well, I think again though, I think that that. it's a fear of the unknown. Mm-hmm. something that is humanlike enough because we know humans, like nothing is scarier than a human because we're evil. Like yeah. We can be evil. And so these are bad things. Yes. And we know it. Yeah. And nocturnal night time. Yes. Yeah. Always scary. Yes. Red eyes like all of that. And so is this just an unconscious fear that people, so when people panic, is this just an image that they're projecting when they're seeing a animals random animal encounters that this is, yeah, this is what I'm seeing. There was definitely a guy at the time, whether or not it was the first time. There was a report of a local man that hid in a Halloween costume and he was hiding in those bunkers. Do you want to die? Like right. Um, cause Okay, for pause, pause, pause. It is West Virginia. I'm sorry. I know I live in Texas. Exact same thing, but I, again, having grown up on the border. Yes. God, are you kidding? Because that's definitely what, like when this was going down, people were arming themselves with guns. They, yeah, I would too. Yeah. So, yeah, that guy was hiding in the bunkers, and so maybe that was the first sighting and then people panicked and saw it everywhere. Yeah. Who knows? But okay. The, I think in my opinion, most plausible if we're going not supernatural or anything at all. Mm-hmm. because dude, like it definitely, yeah. Like even if it was like the angel of death. Mm-hmm. you know, like whatever. But actually explainable Sandhill Crane, which I've never heard this, but I'm like, oh, okay, so a WVU professor of biology thinks that it could have been a sandhill crane. These birds are about as to, first of all, this poor Sandhill crane, you know what I mean? Like before the bridge have, and he has no idea error. He just, but, and he's just like on. A little lost, just like mossy in his way. And he's just like, lands on this bridge because he is like, this is a safe place. Next thing you know, the whole thing collapses. He kills 46 people and he's like, oh my goodness. It was the bird that broke the bridge. And he's just like mine in his own business. He's just like, trying to figure out how to get back and just causing chaos. Wasn't, I wasn't even thinking it was the bridge. I was mostly thinking that first encounter where they're like, we heard a loud screeching, like he was just freaking out because they're like, ha and he's like, ha ha, So santel cranes are about as tall as a person, so they are huge. They're seven to eight, but they are tall. Yeah. Um, well, and as tall as a person. Okay. So if it's a tall person, easily six foot. Add fear on top of that you can easily get to, to seven. Yeah. And a night. Easily get to seven, eight feet tall. No problem. They have a seven foot wingspan, which is substantial. Yeah. I can see again, people exaggerating. Seven to 10. Yeah. Easily, easily. It has bright red color all around its eyes. Okay. Yeah. So it's eyeballs themselves, but their eyeballs are very tiny. Yeah. It's really the red you would see all around their eyes. They do migrate through neighboring Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Mm-hmm. so they're right next door. Yeah. It wouldn't, it wouldn't take much for a strong storm to just kind of blow'em off course. Yeah. They, okay. Where it say it's like, I don't know where they're getting this a hundred mile an hour from, but because a Sandhill crane flies 25 to 35 miles per hour. which is fast, but no hundred miles. Yeah. Some people though are like, well, maybe it was deformed, you know, if it was weirdly blown off course and living in the area or was born in the area, it's just lost were and that there was toxic chemicals in the environment. Maybe it did something to it, Oh. Um, and even if it didn't, it's a bird that is not normally from the area. And so most people would have no idea clue what they were looking at. Yeah. Which, I mean, to be fair at night, yeah. Most people have and like, yeah, most people have no idea. You know, they see a red toe hawk and how many times do we hear, uh, I saw it all. A bald eagle. No, you didn't. You saw a red toe hawk. Oh no. It was a bald eagle. You a person size bird. And then, you know, and you've never seen it before. Before it does slender red. Tall, big wing span, Most people describe him as bird looking. I just like to go with the theory that yes, it was a Sandhill crane that was just blown off course a little bit and he's just trying to live and just all this chaos is just following, you know what, that would actually make a screams every time they see him. That would actually make a really cute, like kid's Halloween book. I'm just saying just like this poor, like Sammy the Sandhill crane. Yeah, just moth man. Yeah. Just like this, this poor bird that's just trying to live and survive and just, yeah, just, just a black cat as you would, you know, just, uh, poor bird. So I'm willing to believe that that's what it was in the sixties. That makes sense. I don't know what it's been everywhere else. If it, you know, I'm, well, I mean the lo other locations that you said, you know, the, where it's been spotted that also, you know, not Chicago for sure, especially like that's in their range. Mo had no idea. Yeah. But Really lost. Yeah. I don't know about the whole aliens thing or like the pre-cognition or anything like that. It's too creepy for me. I wouldn't mind visiting Point Pleasant and going to the festival. I think that'd be a blast because to me it's not the town. It's seeing that it's like seeing the sh the thing if I just saw Moth man, I would, but yeah. So that's Malman. If you wanna know more about it, there is tons out there you can read. There's so much read book. Malman Prophecies. That's what I was just thinking. I was like, I've never read, I've never actually read the book, but now I kind of want me Me too. Yeah. Although I probably will have nightmares. Oh, I like he is connecting those dots that it is Yeah. To of just feeding in your paranoia anyway. Yeah. You're like, yeah, this is plausible. Yeah. I'm gonna die. Especially now that the government said there are aliens. Yeah. Right. like I knew it. Oh goodness. All right. Well, I'm not gonna say it tonight. I also like that. your first thought. Okay. Also, Katie, just like as Christians, that if a person saw a slender humanoid person with large white wings, your first thing is absolute terror. Not like, that would be my reaction to if I ever saw what like actually describes an angel. No. Right. No. No. Yeah. Forget Mary in the Bible. I would've been crapping my pants as seconds some showed up. That's what that was. That is not describing it like, dude, that again, another idea for a book, the real story of the Bible. Like how would people actually react to these situations and that would be one of'em. Like an angel pierce craps of pants runs away. Just sheer terror. I was freaking out. They'd have to calm me down enough to be able to tell me what they want. Yeah, but slap across the face. Calm down, calm down. Uh, yeah, I just liked it. Yeah. That this is like, everyone was like, ah, a slender human with large white wings. Let's get the heck outta here. Yeah. run, run for dear life. Meanwhile, it's again, okay, let's just, okay. Not a Sandhill crane. It is an angel. Just trying to warn these people, you know, let's fallen angel who's come to Earth, who for a whole year, for a whole year, he's like trying to warn people of all these bad things that are happening. Structure is bad. Yeah. And he's like, he's standing there telling people like, don't, don't go. And meanwhile, you know, they're all coming out and it just collapses. They see'em there. So then they just distribute him being the bad luck symbol and he's, you know, just trying to warn people like but everyone just, that nobody listened to. Right. That everyone's just freaking out about, oh yeah. That would be funny. We love us. I, I love us, Virginia. So I, Oh, the country's gorgeous. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's. Very few place. I mean, I grew up, you know, going well in college and then post-college and stuff, hiking and everything through there. And it is gorgeous country to go hiking. Yeah, I was gonna live in Maryland or Pennsylvania. It'd definitely be West Virginia. Dude, there's nothing there. Yeah, there's like not me for career. Well, like, I mean if I wanted to work in Lake Parks or Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah well that's it. What's your last one? The Jersey Devil. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah. I don't know anything about this, but I've heard the name many times. Me, me too hockey team and had no idea that this, like, that this was a, that this was a thing. That, this is where all of that kind of came from because you, you hear about, oh, the Jersey devil hadn't had no clue. All right. So the Jersey Devil is one of the most famous and enduring legends in an American folklore. The legend dates back to the early 18th century when the leads l e e e d s, family of Southern New Jersey was rumor to have given birth to a monstrous child that had wings in the head of a horse. Oh, wait. Whoa, whoa. I was already, sorry. I was starting to freak out the wings. The head of a what horse? You heard me right? A horse, yeah. A horse's head in wings. Uhhuh, If you look up the picture of this thing it's like almost Greek mythology looking like a minar kind of thing. Kind of, yeah. Jersey Devil. You keep going. Also, Hmm. Many things. Keep going. Keep going. Okay. Yeah. Just the Jersey Devil, not the New Jersey devil. Okey dokey. The mother was said to have cursed the child, which then transformed into the Jersey Devil and disappeared into the wilderness. While the exact origins of the legend are unclear, like in reality, not factual, which is stories of people it has been suggested that it may have been inspired by local folklore and superstitions, as well as by accounts of other mythical creatures from around the world. Yeah, because this just looks like the image, a Greek Satan, well, Satan, but also like, I don't know. To me it's like a, it looks more like Greek mythology than, than some. Yeah. Because a lot of, a lot of the mythology that we have here are a lot of the Cryptids and things with us from Europe. Yeah, yeah. We brought from Europe, but a lot of the ones that we have here in the US aren't this like, it's not the combined creature nest. No. As much as what this is, like, this is kind of No, this is just, it. Literally Greek mythology. Yeah. It's very much like the goat headed Satan picture. Yes. But instead of a goat, it's a horse head. Yeah. So the location of the legend is primary in the Pines Barron of Southern New Jersey. The area is called Pine Barrons, which covers over 1 million acres of dense forest, swamp and sandy beaches. The area has long been the center of folklore and superstition with Tale of Ghost, which is other supernatural creatures dating back centuries again. Creepy, dense, swamp woods, dark forest people have always been scared of dark and deep forests. Yep. Cuz it's just, it's that unknown fear. So the legend of the Jersey Devil is one of the most famous of these tales that have come out of this area and has been passed down through generations of local residents and visitors to the area. Over the years, there have been numerous firsthand accounts of seeing the Jersey Devil. One of the most famous sightings occurred in 1909 when multiple people reported seeing the creature flying over the town of Woodbury, New Jersey. I would die again. Yeah, yeah. other sightings describe the creature as a bipedal creature with wings, hooves, and a long pointed tail. Many of these sightings occurred in the early morning hours or during periods of low light, which has led to some to suggest that the sightings may be the result of misidentification of common animals or exaggerations of natural phenomenon. I'm trying to think of what common animal makes that combination. I mean, it's a horse, but the wings part that maybe, I'm trying to think of besides an owl, right? Like what else could it be carrying? What else could it be? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Despite numerous sightings and reports over the years, there is no concrete evidence that the Jersey Devil exists. Skeptics argue that the sightings are simply the result of hoaxes, misidentification, and I ex more exaggerations such as large birds or owls that people are just like, just see it and freak out because it's so creepy. However, there are those who believe the legendary, the Jersey Devil has some basis in reality. Some historians have suggested that the legends may have been inspired by the presence of Wildcats or other large predators in area. So it kind of, not so much like the horse part, but again, it like started there and then let's say. like they said something about, oh, I saw this really creepy creature in the forest, and it could be a large predator. And then they talk to somebody else about it and they're like, oh my God, I saw something too in that forest and it was flying. Next thing you know, we have a flying creature in our hands because they just start, you know, tele. It's the game of telephone, you know, the real life game of telephone situation here. So in addition to tales of sightings, the le legend of the Jersey Devil has also inspired numerous works of art and literature. Over the years, the creature has appeared in everything from local folk songs, horror movies, and recent years. There has been renewed interest in legend with, again, people are just like celebrating the Jersey Devil and we have the hockey team. And so the state has kind of like embraced the legend instead of. I mean, it's one of those things, again, I don't know, I don't know if it's just humans' nature to Yeah. That it's become monetize. Yeah. Then like scary, but also like, hey, let's monetize this thing. Well, I was also reading a thing about how in the last 20 years we've had a crypted renaissance they've called it because Renaissance, because these K cryp, but also all these K crypts are like finally it's my time to shine. Yeah. But that this seems to be a thing that happens in history when there are really bad times and people are looking for something more out there, like freaking aliens. But nobody is focusing on the aliens man that we are absolutely ready for the Jersey devil to be our problem and not like the failing of the economy. You know what I mean? Like all these thanks and everything on Jersey Devil, we want big. Those are problems we can deal with. Yeah. Right. Fun. Maybe you can be our friend. Who knows? Yeah. Just holding out hope of this problem. Yeah. I really wonder what the, I feel like you could figure this out. Has anybody asked the leads family? There's gotta be the leads, family still around like, Hey, a long time ago, anybody in your family get born? Really weird. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not shit with wings and a horse head, but like, can we just genetically test you real quick? Just, uh, give us some of your blood. You guys got some weird stuff going on. There's no rumors of like, A cousin that got born with like freaky shoulder blades or Right. So, just if I thought my neighbor had given birth, okay, this is when, this is the 17 hundreds. If I thought my neighbor gave birth to a creature with wings and a horse's head. Yeah, it was, it was, that lady has made a pact with the devil, right? Yeah. It was 1735. Yeah, so, so more so let, I just hurried up and pulled up some stuff like the, where I got this all from. So it was her 13th child, which also adds on a layer. Yeah, yeah, of course. And thing Yeah. How old you, I mean, Legitimately, she might have had a genetic, a genetic 13th kid. Yeah. So her name for sure was, yeah, after freaking 13 kids. One's about, that's how old she was by then. Yeah. But also one's about, you know, She never, just the probability of things like I, who knows, so her name was Jane Leeds. They caught her, so, right. How do we not know? How does somebody, not somebody is related to this woman. I mean, yeah, but House was who? Family. True. Oh, I'm sure. But I'm sure it's just the same thing as what's, you know, what's already out there. Oh no, actually my great great, great, great. Grandma did give birth to the Jersey devil, or no, no, no, no. She actually gave birth to like, so I don't even know. It's like she deformed. So she had 12 kids, and then whenever she was pregnant with this 13th child in utero, she'd cursed it because she was just like, why? She was just bitter about, yeah. She was just to be fair, if I had 12 kids, In 1735, I'd be to blame the poor kid I know. With your husband, right? Keep it in your pants. Yeah, I would be poor kid. And also, why would you wish that on yourself? Do you know what it would be like to give birth to something with a horse's head? Well, and wings. So it says that she was in labor on a stormy night, also another layer and her friend, great story. And her friends were all around her. It was at first born as a normal child. Um Oh, okay. So it was at at first, but then it's good changed chuck that thing right in the fire. Yeah. Right. It's, it changed into a creature with hooves, a goat's head. So some say goats, some say horse bat wings and a forked tail or a long pointy tail she had, yeah, she was doing it with Satan growling. If I was the neighbor, I would've. It was growling and screaming. The child beat everyone with its tail before flying up the chimney and heading into the Pines in some versions of the tail. Mother Leads was supposedly a witch. They all thought she was a witch anyway. Well, right. And the ch and they thought that the child's father was in fact the devil himself, Satan, which again absolutely to give birth to. If, let's just say if it was some deformity and that they didn't know about, they'd be like, N nope, nope. Can't do it. Yep. She's been spending too much time in the woods naked lately. Right. Like it's So some people also refer to it as the leads devil or the Devil of leads. Wow. Also, can you imagine that being your family legacy? Pretty cool though. So some people, so some, there's some discrepancy on the name, which. like their ancestry. Then figuring out hard, so some say it was Jane leads, other people say it was Deborah Leeds on grounds that Deborah LE's husband, Jiff Jaffe leads named 12 children in the Will. He wrote during 1936, which is compatible with the legend, Deborah and Jaffe leads also lived in the leads point section, which is now Atlantic County New Jersey, which is thought to be the area where this all started. Wait, but you did you just saying 1936, he left it in the will. Sorry, sorry, sorry. 1736 now. Oh, okay. 1730. Yeah, that tracks. Yeah. And so there's, there have been, yeah, the 13th kid flew away. Even he gave birth and he's like, there's 12 other kids. I'm out. Like, he didn't wanna do it. He's just like, I don't wanna share with all those kids. So interesting enough. So there are like some other things that connected to this leads family that kind of gave it some prominence over, I would say other like lo like local folklore or just folklore in general is that there were like some involvement with New Jersey politicians, one being none other than Benjamin Franklin and Franklin's. Yep. And Franklin's rival Almanac publisher Daniel Leed resulted in a leads family being described as quote unquote monsters and it was Daniel Leed's negative description as the leads devil rather than actual creature that created the legend of the New Jersey Devil. So there's also like his own family, he did it to his own family. You're saying like that guy leads the leads guy it, well they're saying that Benjamin Franklin didn't like this Daniel leads guy, and this was around, this leads guy died in 1720. So because he didn't like. this guy, his family or anything, Benjamin Franklin, prominent politician, started calling the whole family monsters. And again, then that kind of maybe it piggyback off of damn, you know what I mean? He so dirty. Ben Franklin. Right. Geez. Ben Franklin, geez. So anyway, so there's tons of different like shoot offs of the story shoot offs of origin story. It's, yeah, there'll never be an answer for this one. No. But it is all kinds of, just craziness about Benjamin Franklin, how he ties into this whole thing. So anyway, yeah, there's a lot of interesting stories out there and this one isn't as layered as the Moth Man, but it definitely has, I don't know, just like a wild multilayers of origin where it could have come from. and then again, do, there was other sightings that was in the early 17 hundreds. There was another wave of sightings in 1909, like I said, in January. Again, it was New Jersey, south New, or blah, New Jersey, Philadelphia area where they saw a bunch of these, a bunch of new sightings. And so that, kind of like kicked all the legends up again. So, yeah, so if you really wanna kind of dive into one, I mean, that's sort of why I, I knew about this one. I didn't remember the name. Like I knew about it for like the, you know, New Jersey Des Devils and things like that. But there was an X files. Episode on it. That's, you know, yeah. Where I knew it from middle school, Katie Exfil extraordinaire. But again, there's so many different depictions and stories of this one. But yeah, if you guys wanna really wanna do a dive into just some crazy history, origin stories, this one's a really interesting one to Yeah. Wild dive into, but yeah. Crazy creepy babies, maybe Well, that's all we have guys. So if you wanna go ahead and reach out to us on Twitter, give us a follow there. Check out our picture on page, just search for us. And for the love of nature, you can find a support us there. So you guys, we can keep bringing you content week after week. Yep. Now that you know more than you wanted to know, your curiosity should be peaked and hopefully you care just a little bit more. Talk to you next week. Bye.