Kraut and Beer: How Fermentation Shapes Our Favorite Foods and Drinks

In this episode of Wildly Curious (formerly For the Love of Nature), co-hosts Katy Reiss and Laura Fawks Lapole dive into the world of fermentation and how this ancient process has shaped some of our favorite foods and drinks. From the science behind how yeast and bacteria transform simple ingredients to the history of fermentation in different cultures, they explore everything from sauerkraut and pickles to beer and wine. Learn how fermentation not only creates delicious flavors but also boosts gut health and preserves food for long periods.

Perfect for food enthusiasts, home brewers, and anyone curious about the transformative power of fermentation in everyday life.

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to For the Love of Nature, a podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature and probably more than you wanted to know. I'm Laura.

And I'm Katy. And today, we are going to be talking about fermentation and how it is a chemical process that humans have harnessed to make delicious foods and beverages.

It sounds a little bit boring, but fermentation is great.

It is, it is, it is way more useful and.

I enjoy many fermented. Aspects, yes. Yeah, of it.

And so we'll definitely get into that.

Yeah.

Did you have major news, Laura?

Just a quick shout out. I did read an article the other day where the hole in the ozone is shrinking. So, yay us.

A lot of what we talk about sometimes can be doom and gloom. And there's a lot of disheartening information out there about the environment.

Yeah.

But at least some things are working, and hopefully it was something we did to make it happen. Or not do, which is probably good.

Not do. Okay, so we want to dive right in to a little history lesson.

A little history lesson? Absolutely. Where did fermentation come from, Katy?

Well, let me tell you where fermentation came from. So again, we promised one that this is gonna be way more interesting.

This will also be even more interesting if you have a drink in your hand while you're listening to this podcast, and that you're 21, and that you're not driving. Yeah, right.

As long as you're of age and you're not driving a motor vehicle. All right, so the word fermentation comes from the Latin fevr, which means to boil. And boiling is basically what happens, like the fermentation process as it's boiling, it's when yeast converts one thing into another during the fermentation process.

Yeah, and I'm gonna dive into the science part.

That's why I was like, I'm not gonna get too far in it yet cause Laura's taking care of all that. I didn't wanna steal her thunder of the science behind it. But so, although historians are not exactly sure when the practice of fermentation really began, the earliest bit of proof of the process dates back to the Stone Age in 7,000 BC.

Whoa, I'm not at all surprised.

Not surprised, but at the same time, it's like the fact that we have evidence of fermentation. Yeah, that is what is surprising.

Because I am sure that as soon as the first cave person saw some other animal getting wasted on berries, they were like, yes, please.

Let's do this. So, in this one, it does talk, the evidence does talk about fermented alcoholic beverages made from fruit, honey, and rice that was found in China. But I will say, as I was researching for this episode, I found that so many people, oddly enough, argue over how and where this whole fermentation process started.

I never in a million years thought that this would be a topic of argument. Yeah, that people are like, no, it started here.

No, it started here. I guess claim to fame, like, where did the mother of all alcohol come from?

The mother of all alcohol. Well, I didn't think that people are gonna be that heated, but it's not only an old process, but honestly, like, one that is in so many different cultures, because, like Laura said, like, this is simply could have been stumbled upon. Yeah.

And so it's like, how can you really pin that down?

Right, this has gotta be, like, other things we've talked about, where it's coming from multiple points around the globe all at the same time.

Exactly. All at the same time.

There's no way that people in South America are doing it, and people in Asia at the same time.

Because some are saying that before the evidence in China, so before 7,000 BC, that there was evidence of fermentation in Northern Africa that they were preserving the milk from camels, cattle, sheep, and goats. And dairy naturally ferments when set in the ideal climate. I know, right?

And the microflora naturally, that's found in milk, and it can ferment it, which, yeah, the whole time I'm like, but yeah, cause I'm sure there's a very fine line between like edible fermentation and then that's just bad milk that could kill you. Chunky milk, yeah. So the microflora though, that is commonly, well, let me go back here.

So microflora is a community of microorganisms, which include algae, fungi, and bacteria sometimes that live in or on another living organism or in a very particular habitat. So you mix the microflora in milk, let's just say, with hot temperatures in North Africa, and it's milk's gonna ferment, which is again, so gross. But at the same time, it pretty much made the first documented yogurt, like back then, which I'm like, I'm not a yogurt fan.

Literally eat a tub of yogurt a week, because it's the easiest thing to eat now. You know how when we worked together, it was like the turkey wrap thing.

Okay, let's pause, guys. Laura literally, every day, it was every day.

Sure sign of ADD that I fixated on foods.

And it was the turkey wrap.

Yeah, turkey wrap. Well, I heard it was healthy, and so I just went with it, and it was easy. You know what's even easier?

Yogurt.

Just a tub of yogurt.

I bring a tub of yogurt, and a bag of frozen berries, and a bag of granola, and then I just mix all.

Honestly, I wish I could. I just can't do it. I don't know what it is about yogurt.

I just don't like it.

It is weirdly sour.

It is. And it just meant like- And the only time I do get yogurt in my diet, because I do know it is so good for you, and so good for your gut health and everything, I'll mix it in a smoothie.

Yeah.

I'll put the apple, banana, oranges smoothie, yogurt in that with ice. I'm like, golden. I can do this, but I gotta sneak my yogurt into the diet.

Like a kid, you know how they get to sneak in like, peas with kids? No, this is, you gotta sneak in my yogurt because I just, I can't do it. Even the thought of it just makes me wanna vomit.

And I'm sure you figure like, yogurt's come a long way since fermented, you know, goat milk and, yeah, in Northern Africa. But also, who was the first like, knucklehead to eat chunky fermented?

It's like our past episode, though. Would you, or could you eat that? Or could you, probably not.

But lucky for us, though, someone did try it because fermented dairy really is nutrient-dense. It boosts gut health. We have buttermilk from it, yogurt, sour cream, which I do love sour cream.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Different cheeses, and honestly, like they're the most probiotic-rich dairy products out there. So let's just keep going through history here, and staying in local slash Northern Africa, the Egyptians were the first to experiment with yeast and dough to make bread.

Them.

Right? So the Egyptians, of course, were not making our bland, gross, white bread that we have today, but ones that were full of grains, seeds, whole grains and the like, or as my son likes to call it, birdseed bread.

My mouth actually just almost started watering thinking about warm bread, even the smell of a good, thick, warm bread.

I just love how you're salivating. What's Laura salivating over? Bread.

Listen, as any of my friends who are listening will know, I am literally the baguette girl. I will just whip out a baguette on a trip. A trip.

I love bread.

What do you guys got for snacks?

Any like Teddy grams or goldfish? Nope, a baguette.

I got the baguette. But also just the fact that you're like, I just whip out my baguette. Like every other kid is like struggling to open their, you know, bags of Teddy grams or like candy and stuff.

And you're like, baguette.

Yeah, butter.

I would not, that's nothing about what we just said. It shocks me whatsoever. White bread to me is definitely the iceberg lettuce of the bread world.

There's just not a whole lot there. And then after Egypt, we go over to Iran, where it was guesstimated in 2000 BC. So we're still like a long time ago.

Yeah, in 2000 BC, they started pickling foods in particular cucumbers, which of course gave rise to arguably the absolute best, but vastly under recognized and rated snack in the world pickles.

Pickles, heck yes.

Love pickles, gosh, I...

But always pack your pickles separate. I think of that every time I see a pickle now. They gave me the sage advice to always pack your pickles separate from your sandwich, because otherwise you end up with a soggy wrap.

And because you, yeah, because you kept packing, you kept putting your pickles.

Because I was lazy, and I just threw the pickles in there, and then I'd end up with a soggy wrap.

And then you didn't want to eat it, and I was like, always pack your pickles separately. Listen, folks, I am full of knowledge and wisdom. If anybody needs life advice out there, I'm here for it.

Always pack your pickles separately. Is that word? That's just like a tongue twister.

I feel like I'm playing-

No, I know, I love it.

I feel like I'm playing badminton in my mouth. Just like, pack your pickles separately. Just all the time.

Anyway, so we're gonna skip ahead now from about 2000 BC, but we're still in the BC era.

You have not gotten alcohol, or you're saying that was first?

No, yeah, alcohol was first, but that was like-

Then the dairy stuff, then bread.

As far as we know. But that process of alcohol was just letting it go.

Thin, yeah.

Yeah, there's less thin.

Just any other, like all the birds that are eating the berries in the trees, and yeah.

Yep, and so, let me think here. So yeah, so we're still in the well in the BC era, and people are using different types of fermentation on a variety of foods. It started giving us drinks, cereals, which, and pretty much anything can be pickled, apparently.

And so then let's go ahead, and we're gonna way go up in time to 1856 with Louis Pasteur. And I know we've talked about him before.

Probably in passing.

Yeah, I do not remember what episode at all, but Pasteur discovered that, or he was the one that discovered that. I think so. Yeah, so he was the one that discovered that fermentation requires live cells and that yeast plays an important role in that process.

His heat-related experiments would later be utilized in the development of pasteurization, which we all know we use pasteurization to kill harmful microbes in milk without destroying any nutritional value or taste to it.

Some cheeses, too.

Yes, yep. So in the 1900s then, Elie Makhnikov, he's Russian, so that's why I gave the hh in there, the Makhnikov.

Oh jeez, apologies to any of our Russian listeners.

That I can't, which we have some. We do have some Russian.

Sorry for Katy.

Listen, I can't, but I do know it's Elie. It looks like Ellie, but no, it's Elie, I believe. Or Eli?

No, I don't know. They gave me like a pronunciation, but it was weird. But he was a bacteriologist from Russia, and he discovered the strain lactobacillus acidophilus.

Ooh, good old lactobacillus. That's a yogurt one, I know.

It is. And so using his findings as pretty much a platform, Yale researcher Leo F. Rettger found the strains of lactobacillus were incredibly active within the human gut.

And that really did pave the way for the development of probiotics in general. And not just like in the yogurt.

Yeah, yeah. If you take it in your pills.

If you're looking for probiotics to take after, yeah. Yep, and this really kicked off in the 1970s. And that's when we started to see probiotics on store shelves to help with gut health.

And I mean, which it makes sense, because if we destroy our gut with such crappy food to begin with, maybe probiotics wouldn't be needed so much, but we do. So overall, the fermentation, it really gives us so many great things that we have today, mostly pickles. And if we didn't have this process, I mean, I would say I don't know where we'd be, but so many different cultures started it eventually.

I also think that I don't, well, let's say it just never happened. If we never happened, I think that we might not even be alive, because people didn't even drink water because it was too bad to drink, so they just drank alcohol instead. Or pickling foods to make it last so much longer, like through the winter.

Like, there'd be a lot less people, I think.

Maybe we shouldn't have done it. So we have a lot less people.

More pickles for the rest of us.

What's the most incredibly selfish thing you've ever said, Laura, that there should be less people so that I don't have to share pickles?

I mean, I can stand with that. We have, in Fort Worth here, this is where, and I am all for the kosher dill Velasic. I grew up on Velasic pickles.

I'm a Velasic girl, but.

I'm a Velasic girl, baby. Velasic white girl. That needs to be assured.

It's not Velasic. We're calling you out right now, partner. Velasic white girl.

Okay, no, it's happening.

And it's you riding a pickle. Like, you riding a pickle, Velasic white girl, like a rocket ship into space.

Velasic white girl. I'm making this happen. I'm gonna make myself a t-shirt.

It is happening.

I'll wear one too, absolutely, because I'm a Velasic white girl.

It's happening. This is, we keep saying we need to take off our merch. This is gonna be, this has to be our first one, at least for the two of us.

Well, because of the way you said Velasic, I was like, yup, yeah. No more basics. No more basics.

Velasic.

Velasic.

That is just so Velasic.

Especially because to think of it, like pickle, like the vinegar, all the things that you might say that are just like sassy, you know. Vlasic.

Vlasic.

Girl.

Vlasic, girl. Well, here in Fort Worth, though, we have Best Made Pickle AID. That's the company here.

And so we have a pickle euphorium here within Fort Worth, and you can go and get pickle socks, pickle like little rubber.

Wait, did you just say euphorium or emporium? I heard euphorium, but I really, but it's... I'm sure you said emporium.

But you're in euphoria when you go to the pickle euphorium.

No, and I can't wait to go back and edit this to listen to be like, what did I say? I don't remember, but it is euphoric because it's pickle socks, it's pickles, pickle key chain, pickle stuffed animals, pickle like a little rubber action figure. Pickle everything, it's fun.

So my son, who also loves to snack on pickles, when we went, he was like, I need this, I need that. I was like, buddy, you don't need four pickle stuffed animals. He really wants it, but yeah, he doesn't need it.

But anyway, classic white girl.

All right, well, that was a little bit of history. Now let's talk about the science because we all know that's why you're really here. All of you brewers and people already know all of this.

But for the lay person, we're just gonna talk real quick about what's the science of fermentation. So the scientific definition of fermentation is the metabolic process where starches and sugars are broken down by enzymes in the absence of oxygen. All right, so to apply that, it's just a process where sugary, starchy stuff broken down, no oxygen present.

And a couple of different, there's like different types. So the enzymes, when I brought that word up, where do the enzymes come from? That's coming from the microorganisms.

So the microflora that Katy brought up, the bacteria, the molds, the yeasts. Depending on which microorganisms are present and in what ratios can affect the taste and the type of fermented thing, whether it be a liquid or solid, like food or beverage. There are three types of fermentation.

First one is lactic acid fermentation.

Wait, how many types?

Three.

Okay, I'm curious as to what the third one was because everything I found was said two. Continue. I'm intrigued, Laura.

So the three types are lactic acid fermentation, which is not only what happens in your own muscles when you run, so you're actually creating lactic acid whenever you exercise, but in food, typically it's foods such as yogurt, pickles, and sauerkraut. Then there's the ethanol and alcohol fermentation. Pretty self-explanatory is where alcohol and carbon dioxide are produced, and that's wine, beer, and bread.

And then the third one is acetic acid fermentation, which produces acetic acid, and that's vinegar and condiments, which is, I mean, most condiments have vinegar in them. And then there are two stages of fermentation. There's primary fermentation, which is very brief, and that's where the microbes are rapidly working to break things down.

And then in secondary fermentation, it's a longer stage, and that's when the alcohol levels really start to rise, if it's alcohol fermentation. So alcohol levels are going up. They get to a point where they're so high that microflora can't live anymore, so it dies off.

And so that's what you're left with. And then depending on the process from there, you could increase different contents of things. But in general, there's just the primary step, which is breaking it all down, and the secondary step, which is rising levels of acids and alcohols.

And that's it. That's the basic science.

I do know people that do home brewing and stuff, which, again, that's one of those things that I've kind of avoided because I know my hyperfixation. I would be like, buy all the things to make my own alcohol, and I would never success.

Take a shower again, because I feel like they're always in people's bathtubs.

Or in the garage, but I feel like I could never... Because it is a process.

It's a scientific process.

It really is, and you have to know what you're doing.

So you don't get alcohol poisoning, I'm sure, at some point.

Right, so you don't die. I'll just leave it up to other people.

The only fermentation science that I ever do is I let apple cider sit in the fridge, and I don't typically look at the expiration date. I'll smell it, and if it smells fermented, I'm like, ah, it's okay, and I'll still drink it. But it's apple cider, so I don't know.

Russian roulette. Russian roulette. Just spin it.

All right. So then, okay, so now we've talked about the history, the science, and now we're going to divide up. So I'm going to talk about food, and then Laura's going to talk about the alcohol side of it, right?

Okay, so the one that I picked, the food out of all the foods out there.

Right, because we've already talked about pickles and yogurt and cheese.

And if somebody thought or had to take one guess as to what fermented food item I was going to talk about, I guarantee you, they would have probably said pickles, and they'd all be wrong.

Because of your German ancestry.

I'm talking, well, I will say that.

You didn't use this either?

No, I did do sauerkraut, but it is not German.

I didn't know that. What is it, Polish?

Nope. So, as everybody knows, I have said it several times. I am very German, very German.

And Germans love sauerkraut. And Germans definitely, I would say, perfected it because we use it in so many different things, but we weren't, definitely Germans were not the first ones. Once again, same as like everything else, there was a lot of debate over who really fermented cabbage.

Cabbage. Of all things. So what is sauerkraut?

Like we just said, besides, you know, one of God's biggest sour blessings, it's just fermented cabbage. Slice it up, and it's fermented cabbage. Germany, like I said, does get a lot of the credit for sauerkraut because we did perfect it.

What is the word sauerkraut, German?

Yes, yeah, that word is, yeah, that word is the German form of it. But who actually did it? Some people say, there's two different thoughts here.

Some people say that it was the Chinese who were actually building the Great Wall of China, and they were living in cabbage fields during the summer and would ferment it to save the cabbage to eat in the winter. But predating this practice, they have seen that the Romans pickled cabbage, which is where most people believe the source of modern-day sauerkraut really does come from.

That would make sense because the Germanic tribes that the Romans got involved with.

Yep. And so after, in Rome and everything, it went to Central and Eastern Europe, but also like other countries, including the Netherlands, where it's called Zerkle. And then in France, where the name became Chocruit.

I don't, I never, I took one year of French in high school, and I didn't pay attention. But sauerkraut is so popular because despite the sour taste, it does have an extremely long shelf life. And this, the long shelf life, and it doesn't have to be, like it doesn't have to be refrigerated.

And it keeps whoever was eat the sauerkraut would have the nourishment over the long winters, just as they thought that the Chinese did when they were building the Great Wall.

And I'm sure like it, it gives another instance that this was developed in more than one place.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Again, it's cabbage.

All right, so the process of making sauerkraut is similar to other present day fermentation processes, where sauerkraut is made by pickling through, like what Laura talked about, the lactic acid fermentation. And so this is also how not heat-treated pickled cucumbers and kimchi are made. Basically the same process.

Kimchi was cabbage.

Yep, so cabbage is just finely shredded, layered with salt, and left to ferment. Just left. It's not like heated or anything like that.

It's chopped up and just left, leave it there. Fully cured sauerkraut keeps for several months in an airtight container. And neither refrigeration nor pasteurization is required, although these treatments could prolong the storage life of sauerkraut, because it could stay for several months, and it didn't need to be refrigerated.

No pasteurization, no extra anything. That's why it was able to keep for so long. And one of the more popular stories surrounding sauerkraut was when Captain James Cook, and Captain Cook, among other things, he was an explorer, navigator, cartographer, he was famous.

With the Antarctic, right?

I don't remember if he was the one. I know he's most popular for going around the Pacific Islands, Hawaii, to New Zealand, and Australia. And so during the long boat trips of that era, many people would die from scurvy.

And scurvy is an extreme deficiency of vitamin C, which can cause swollen and bleeding gums, where sometimes teeth would fall out. You would develop red or blue spots on your skin, and usually on your shins, and they would bruise super easily just because severe lack of vitamin C. Yeah, from it.

Yep. And so Cook, however, managed to keep all three of his expeditions nearly scurvy free, which for that time was like, for how far he was going was unheard of. And this was partially because of his obsession with procuring like fresh food at each of his stops.

But many have also credited his good fortune to sauerkraut. So while Cook really didn't know what he was doing, like that it was the cure for scurvy, he did know that like sauerkraut was nutrient rich, this pickled cabbage, it seemed to keep the disease at bay. So he started bringing several tons of it on his voyages.

Barrels of sauerkraut.

Yeah, just barrels and barrels of sauerkraut. And his only problem was getting the crew to eat it. And that's why like what happened every single time was like, they don't want to eat it.

I was just to say, I wonder how, I bet, I bet it not only wouldn't spoil, but I bet rats wouldn't get into it.

I guarantee you it wouldn't. So if rats aren't eating it, it might be a problem. And so he would have to trick the crew.

And so what Cook would do, he would simply have the sauerkraut prepped every day to serve to the officer's table first. And then whenever the enlisted men saw that the officers were eating it, they were like, well, it must be a delicacy. And then so then they would start to eat it.

So he basically tricked them. But that's what kept like his boats like healthy, was the sauerkraut. I mean, yes, he was getting them fresh food at every single stop.

He was very meticulous for that. But because of that, he was able to keep like full crews all the time, which was so unheard of. So why was sauerkraut then so beneficial for these sailors?

Well, it is high in vitamin C, obviously, if it's going to keep away scurvy, very important. But it also has tons of other stuff. It has a healthy portion of vitamin K, iron, manganese B6 vitamin, copper, potassium, along with so many other good things with it.

Is that all just a normal cabbage?

Yes, but I think it's like whenever it's fermented, then it brings out like that process.

It's already broken down to release the vitamins.

Yes. And so the fermentation process though alone, like we talked about before, like bringing about natural probiotics. And so that in itself is healthy.

So like you have the health benefits of the cabbage, but then the fermentation, which gets you to the probiotic point, that does wonders because it helps, you know, with your gut health, which has showed that it helps to reduce, like in sauerkraut in particular, I'm talking about, like just sauerkraut has been shown to reduce gas, bloating, constipation, diarrhea and symptoms linked to Crohn's disease and several other things.

It's so crazy because cabbage makes you get, like cabbage.

Cabbage itself.

In particular, yeah, is like already, but I guess if it's already, but all the stuff is released.

It's the fermentation. Yeah, it's the fermentation process and getting all those probiotics. And so because of everything we've talked about in other episodes about gut health, we know how important that sauerkraut can be.

If it's helping your gut health, it's going to boost your immune system, help with brain functioning, improve heart health, give you stronger bones among a long list of other positive health effects. And one of those, which I had no idea, there's a huge benefit of sauerkraut that they found that it was linked to decreasing the amount, the chance and possibility of women developing breast cancer. So, right, there was a, yeah, so there was a study done in 2005 where researchers from Poland reported that high cabbage slash sauerkraut intake with girls ages 12 to 13 years old up through adulthood, so they started and then up through adulthood, they had reduced risk of breast cancer.

And it was the women who ate at least three servings a week of raw or short cooked cabbage and sauerkraut, and they had significantly reduced risk compared to those who had only one serving per week.

Whoa.

Which is crazy. Like, I had no idea. I mean, yes, it has a lot of great health benefits, but I had no idea, like, reducing the breast cancer.

It's just a super food.

Right? And so now, okay, we're gonna have...

We need to start eating more sauerkraut.

Right? Yeah, way more sauerkraut, but also we're gonna make Velacic Girl shirts, but then we also need one that says Save the Tatas Eat Sauerkraut. So we're just gonna eat that one.

Just like a blob of sauerkraut there. And so the scientists in this research theorized that it was the glucosinolates in cabbage, which are natural components in many, like, different plants. They help decrease DNA damage and cell mutation and also block the process that stimulated excessive cell growth, which typically leads to tumors.

And so the fermentation process breaks down the glucosinolates and the isothichenates and other compounds, and this encourages pre-cancerous cells to self-destruct. And not only did they conduct this in 2005, this has been done quite a few other times. Again, other studies have been done, and similar findings in 2012 were done at the Nutrition Cancer Center, I think it was called, showed that consumption of cabbage and sauerkraut was connected, again, with the significant reduction in breast cancer.

And then another one, so there was one in 2012 and another completely separate group also in the same year, reported that raw cabbage and sauerkraut juices could affect genes that involved in the activation of carcinogens, exerting like the... Because a lot of times, whenever we get carcinogens in our body, something needs to break it down and then it like spreads through your body, I guess. And so the sauerkraut juices, it affects the genes that are involved with the activation, good grief, of the carcinogens.

And so that reduces your risk too. So again, who freaking knew? I mean, I love sauerkraut, but I knew I loved it, right?

I needed to love it more.

Saving my tatas were good.

And probably other, I mean, if it could do that form of, I bet it's other forms of cancer too.

You would think. Yeah, and I mean, I have breast cancer, a lot of cancer in my family. My dad died from pancreatic cancer, and he was kind of like a fluke, but we do have prostate cancer and breast cancer in my family, so I need to serve you for sauerkraut.

Just load up on the sauerkraut. Save my katas.

It's definitely, as I've gotten older, I've liked it more and more because we've always ate it with pork a couple of times a year as kids. And before, I was like...

Well, it's good luck. New Year's Day. And a lot of people...

It's a cultural thing. I mean, where we're from. Pennsylvania Dutch.

So you eat it on New Year's Day. It's good luck. And a lot of people down here don't eat it.

In Texas, I have to look. And it's normally one brand of sauerkraut.

Which is so crazy, because yeah, up here sauerkraut's everywhere. You can get it on your hot dog and all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, everything. You gotta look for it down here in the grocery stores. And it literally is like one brand of sauerkraut, and that's it.

But yeah, I never really liked it that much. But the juices, I was always okay with. But now I actually eat the cabbages.

For me, whenever I was a kid, I loved the smell of sauerkraut, because that was something that everybody in my family would again, New Year's Day, but it was in a slow cooker. And so it was like that slowly and then you're like, oh, it smells so good, and it was always around the holidays. And again, same thing with you.

I can't just sit there and eat a bowl of sauerkraut, but I gotta have it with something. But I gotta have it with something. But yeah, I do like sauerkraut.

I'm actually like, so we make it with the pork and mashed potatoes. And actually, it's really good as gravy on mashed potatoes.

Oh, heck yeah.

Yeah, like surprisingly. Anyway. Okay, on to the alcohol.

So, which I'm also, I'm also sure people are shocked. One, I didn't talk about pickles. And then two, that I'm not the one talking about alcohol.

Yeah.

So there's, I had a lot of fun researching this part because I mean, not that I don't know some alcohols, but I'm by no means an alcohol expert. And then there are some that I literally never even heard of. So rather than choosing just one, I like just chose to break down like the alcohols.

So there's a process for the process for beer and some liquors goes like this. You take a grain, you boil it to produce something called mash. And then you incubate or heat up the mash with malt.

And malt is sprouted barley. And then you get this, it's called the wort. So there's all these main words.

Wart is in W-O-R-T.

But still guys, pick a different word.

Yeah, gross. Then the wort is again incubated, this time with yeast. And then that produces 12 to 15% alcohol that then needs to be distilled.

Okay, so that's how you make beer. And then a lot of different kinds of like grain liquors. So when we say distill, you know, I said alcohol levels rise till they get to a certain percent.

That's that. 10 to 15%, once you reach that, all those microbes die off. So you're just left with a bunch of liquid and a bunch of alcohol.

So distillation, when you boil liquid, it evaporates. You then collect what is evaporated, and that separates the alcohol from the other liquids. You do that.

The more times you do that, the more and more refined, till you can get 95% alcohol, versus the watered down version, which is how it all starts. That's the process of making alcohol. There are a couple of different types of alcohol, and they're divided by the process.

There's fermented beverages, where it's fermentation only. You're not distilling anything after that. You're just letting it sit, or you're doing whatever you're doing.

So that's beers, and that's fermented grain juice, mostly wheat and barley, and then like ales and lagers. That's how it's divided up. Grain, ale, lager.

Then you got wines, which is fermented grape juice, and there's red, white, rose, sparkling, fortified, and processed. Never even heard of fortified, but...

Which is so funny that my brother is so into wine, because it is not his personality. He owns a remodeling company. Construction stuff.

He's a runner, but he's in flannels, and he's a man, and then he's like, I like wine. He knows so much about wine, too.

There's a really cool infographic that I found of the process of making wine. Up above, that was beer and liquor. So how you make wine is you harvest the grapes, you prepare them by pulling them all off their little stems.

You stick it in a barrel. Then you add yeast. Then you ferment that.

Then you press all this juice out so that you're not left with all the mush. Then you add in the good little microbes, and then you let it age for a while. Then you blend things, you clarify it, you bottle it.

You just blend crap. It's fine.

Yeah, and then clarifying, bottle it, and then you let it age again once it's in the bottle. So it's a bit of a lengthy process.

Yeah, my brother has wine in his basement that is just sitting there, and he's just gonna let it sit there. And I couldn't not drink it.

And what I didn't realize, you hear blackberry wine and some other types of wine. Well, technically wine is fermented grape juice, and ciders are fermented fruit juice. So calling something blackberry wine, it's really like blackberry cider.

Cider, quote unquote.

But it can be, so we think cider is being apple juice, but really it can be also pear, strawberry, blackberry, like literally just any other kind of fruit juice.

Even though we all know apple is the best. I mean...

Like apple cider?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I've had some good like blackberry. But I do.

If I'm going to choose an alcoholic beverage, cider is my top for sure, because I just think it tastes the best. So that's the fermented drinks. Then you've got the distilled drinks.

So this is that extra step of like making it more powerful. That is divided into liquors, which some people call them spirits. So liquors and spirits.

Or liqueurs, spelled differently. Okay, so your liqueurs are vodka made from grains, but could also be corn, fruit, or potatoes. Basically vodka can come from anything.

You're desperate, you can make vodka. Gin, which it's essentially flavored vodka, but there's the additional ingredient of juniper berries, which is what makes it taste like a pine tree. Whiskey.

I just like how you said, which is why it tastes like a pine tree.

It does. Whiskey, which is grain juice, such as corn, rye, barley, and wheat. Brandy, which is fruit juice, typically grapes.

Tequila comes from the blue agave plant. Rum, which is made from sugarcane or molasses. And then grain alcohol.

That's just like a catchall, which is made from grains, and you can get 95% ethanol from that.

Cheese.

And then, so those are liqueurs, and then a liqueur, that is just liquor with sweetener in it. And there are hundreds of types of liqueurs. Any kind of liqueur with sweetener in it.

And then, so you've got your fermented alcohol, you got your distilled alcohol, and then you've got your like others, okay? I knew about mead, so mead is your fermented honey, but I was like, surely there's some fermented dairy drinks out there. There is.

And I know I'm going to say them wrong, so I apologize in advance. But we've got, I don't know, blonde. Bland, blonde, it's B-L-N-D.

A-rag, A-I-R-A-G. And then kumis or kumis, K-U-M-I-S. Most of these are Middle Eastern drinks.

Or like blonde, that is Vikings. Like Vikings made that one. So it's fermented milk.

And then of course, there's some other fermented drinks that are not alcohols. So just honorable mentions to kombucha or some other things like that. But if you're talking about alcohols, that's your divisions.

Your fermented drinks, your distilled drinks, and then a couple of other fermented-y things. Although I actually don't really know if the meat and the dairy stuff are considered alcoholic drinks or just fermented drinks. I think that they are considered alcoholic, but they're very slight.

Like alcohol content is not at all high. There just happens to be some byproduct.

Yeah, it's like whenever you say beer cheese. There's no beer and the cheese at that point. It's miniscule.

Yeah, it's very slight.

The stuff is in there, but nothing else.

So yeah, lots of different kinds of alcohols. To choose from all around the planet, every culture has come up with some different kind of alcoholic drink. And like I mentioned before, in a lot of places, in a lot of times, the water has not been safe to drink, so people drink alcohol instead.

I mean, it makes sense. Okay, I am not an alcoholic. I really don't drink as much as I talk about it.

But to me, just as much as I like trying different foods, I like trying different drinks for that reason, because every area has like different types of alcohol.

Yeah, it's very much like foods. Like, yeah, try different tastes.

Yeah, and I really like it. Like whenever I moved to Texas, that's when I found the thing that I love the most, and it's a cousin of tequila, and it's solto, O-T-O-L. It started in northern Mexico, and then it's over in the southern Texas as well.

Also from a plant, again, it's very similar to tequila. Is it agave still?

But a different type of agave?

Let me look real quick.

I'm just curious.

I think so.

Let's see here.

It's actually in the asparagus family.

Whoa, so you're healthy.

Well, yeah, so it's made, so Soto can be made from a variety of different plants, but you've, it's very hard to describe. It almost looks like it's not agave, but it's, I wish these ones had common names. But they make Soto from that, and desert door outside of Austin makes it, it is so freaking good.

It has the same effects of a tequila. It just doesn't have that like, you know, kick of like, Oh my God. No, Soto is the way to go.

And desert door, first of all, desert door has different lines where they donate to conservation, different conservation lines. I will sing desert door as praises for as long as I can. I've met a lot of their reps and stuff just like in passing, but I love their stuff.

And anything, if you go to their website, desertdoor.com, there's all kinds of like different drinks and everything that you can make. Like they already have cocktails and everything on there. But if you want to try something and try that, it's really good.

But again, that's why I like, like trying different alcohols and different drinks. Because again, to me, it's the same thing as trying different foods whenever you go places, trying the local drinks. For me, it's just fun.

To get a piece of the culture.

Yeah, yep, definitely. All righty, so that wraps up our episode today in talking about fermentation and the chemical process and all the food, alcohol, and ta-tas we've been saved that we're gonna now learn about. And how vlasic we are.

And how vlasic we are. Be sure to follow us on Twitter. I'm making those shirts.

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Yeah, all right, everybody, join us next week. And now that you know more than you want to know, your curiosity should be peaked, and hopefully, you care just a little bit more.

Thank you for watching.