Free Love: Bonobos, Bizarre Reproduction, and Animal Orgies

In this episode of Wildly Curious (formerly For the Love of Nature), Katy Reiss and Laura Fawks Lapole dive into one of the most provocative topics in the animal kingdom: the sexual behavior of bonobos. Known for their “make love, not war” mentality, these fascinating primates use sex to solve problems, build bonds, and even trade for food. Katy and Laura hilariously break down the bizarre reproductive strategies of bonobos, as well as other unusual animal mating habits. From crocodile mating rituals to the shocking world of barnacle penises, this episode covers it all with humor and science.

Perfect for nature lovers, science enthusiasts, and anyone curious about the wild and wacky world of animal reproduction. Tune in for a fun and enlightening look at how animals get down in ways you never imagined.

Transcript

Hey, everyone, and welcome to For the Love of Nature, a podcast where we talk about nature, and I already forgot the intro.
A podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature, and probably more than you wanted to know. And I'm Katy.
And thank God I have this short line of this part. But we are back in Better Than Ever, so besides Laura forgetting everything, which is our tagline and the whole essence of who we are. Hopefully, you guys have noticed that we rebranded.
So you should see some new cover art that's coming up that we wanted to have released for last season, but it just wasn't quite getting done quick enough.
Shout out to our awesome graphic designer.
Heck yes, who gave us a quality product. And that was part of it, was we wanted to take it, like we wanted to slow it down to actually put together a product that we liked and not just, hey, let's hurry up and throw something out. Because that's what happened the first time around.
Yeah, yeah.
It was like a few...
Does these colors match? I don't know, probably let's do it.
Yeah, let's put it together. And that's how we came up with the first cover art image. And so like Laura said, we actually hired somebody this time around to put something together for us.
We still have our little ax that Josh drew us.
Yes, he still is gonna live on. And hopefully, he'll stay around forever. I hope so.
Me too.
And yeah, so anyway, so season four, I cannot believe that we've been doing the Shenanigans for a year.
I can and I can't. There's parts of me that is like, yeah, we've been doing it for a year. But then other parts of me, yeah, it's crazy that it's been a year.
It's been a year. For me, I guess the crazy it's been a year part is that because of my ADHD, that I have stuck with something for a year. I've stuck with something for a year.
To me, that's amazing. But I mean, mostly because you guys don't let me forget stuff.
Well, that plus I think what helps because I also, man, I watched so many ADHD TikTok stuff now, and one of them was talking about...
I got you on the algorithm now.
It's so true. And they were talking about hyper focusing on hobbies and then jumping hobbies. Oh my gosh, that is so me.
And...
But have you seen the one where we did breaks? No, the breaks definitely helped.
If we didn't take breaks, I couldn't do it. I think we'd be done.
We would have been done after the first season. There's just no way. Everybody needs a breather.
I mean, we've talked about this before, but we record them in batches. And so the season might be X number of months long, but we really, for the most part, get huge chunks of the recording done at the beginning of the season, take a little break, and then get it done, and then we're done. And so we have some breathing room.
At least we like to think we do.
Right, we said we were going to every single time. It really gets to be like a three-week breathing room.
Yeah. Listen, life is...
Maybe, maybe this time.
Yes. Maybe we have such high hopes for this season, like we do every season. But it's going really good.
I mean, everything's been going really good with the podcast. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We are gonna put this episode up on Patreon.
So if you haven't been supporting us so far, jump over to Patreon to go ahead and see the video, because most of the time where you hear silence and Laura kind of laughing, I am uncontrollably laughing. You just can't hear it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Katy's just smacking the table.
Because I can't breathe. My asthma. So it's way better to watch the video.
So if you haven't hopped on over to Patreon, go ahead and go see us over there, and we'll be putting this video up, and then probably the backlog of some other ones up, too. So, alrighty, what else has been going on? We want to talk about life here for a second.
Because we heard you want to hear.
Yeah, we heard you want to hear.
Just fast forward a little bit.
Yeah, but we had several people that talked about, they just want to hear Laura and I talk a little bit about what, like, just Laura and I. Which is fascinating to me, that people think that we're fascinating.
Although from an outside perspective, like as a scientist, our lives are pretty weird. Like...
They don't even know.
I know, that's what I'm like.
They don't even know. So I do want to give, speaking of personal stuff though, I do want to give a shout out. So every, if you've been really fine-tunely paying attention to everything, you might notice that my last name has changed.
And that's from the opposite effect of a marriage. It's from a, a dis-marriage. I'm, I am now divorced, but the shout out part I want to give is to Laura and Kim, who have been ever so freaking patient.
Last season was just a dumpster fire on a dumpster fire on a dumpster fire for me. And Kim and Laura were super adaptable, and Kim stepped in quite a few times, if you've noticed, to do some of the segments with Laura, and those were weeks where I was like, guys, I just mentally cannot do it. I just cannot do it.
So Kim really made sure that, like, I mentally had the bandwidth to do anything. Laura, whenever I said, listen, I want to do this one, Laura made sure that I was getting my scripts done. And then finding other fill-ins and interviews and everything like that for the ones that I couldn't do.
So shout out to you two, especially for helping me through season three, because that was a rough season.
Yeah, definitely for you. And I mean, it was no picnic for me either, just having such a young baby. I was definitely overwhelmed in my own life.
Yes.
So yeah, I definitely, everyone warns you that maternity leave is not going to be vacation. But I was like, surely I'm going to have more. She's going to be sleeping all the time.
No, no, no, no.
Not only you have a hyper baby, you know.
And like anxiety and obsessions, like everything is exacerbated by hormones.
And it's always fun. I mean, kids are a joy in life, but...
Kids are a joy.
Me, my dad, before he passed, he always said his favorite ages for us kids were 2 to 6. And I 100% agree with that.
That's the kids I like to work with at work, so I'm imagining. They're just fun.
I'm not just saying it because he's my kid. Luke is the funniest freaking kid that I ever met. Just the way his brain thinks, the way he comes up with jokes on his own that he thinks are hilarious and they're not, but they are really cute.
And yeah, and he's six, he just turned six, and so he's such a good age right now. But yeah, so thank you guys for everybody who made it through the hectic season of three, which...
There was quality stuff in there though, so if you haven't heard it, go back.
Oh my gosh, there were some good... I had a laughing meltdown so many times.
Well, plus that and Duke Lemur Center, which I'm still like...
Heck in saying that we landed that interview, yeah. We had some really good guests, and we are going to keep bringing guests back for sure, just because it's fun for us. If I could just keep doing interviews, like with the guests, and keep pumping out episodes like that, we totally would.
And during the break, I got to be guests on two other shows on Strange By Nature and High Panda Pod, both of which were awesome. Yeah, go listen to their stuff. I, Katy, I can't tell you how hard I laughed on High Panda Pod.
If you haven't listened to it, you must. It's so good. Those guys are insane.
I love them.
But they're insane.
And we're going to start, like we do, now that life, I always want to say life's going to calm down a little bit, and then it just gets in, just shakes it up a notch. But we do want to keep doing interviews and things and have guests, more guests on our podcast. And the Patreon aspect of it really does help.
Just because it gives Laura and I a little bit more time and the capacity financially to pay things for, like, recording and all that stuff and be able to do video editing. And so there is a cost to all this. And most of it, for those that do back us on Patreon, that does freaking help so much.
Shout out, because it is a huge freaking help that allows us to pay for all this stuff. So Laura and I aren't constantly taking it out of our own pockets. So it is it is super, super helpful.
But yeah, that's also a reason why we took a two month break. One holidays are just chaotic. Laura juggling a baby and school and life and work and everything.
Yeah, we took a two month break, but now we're back. And I am pumped for season four.
You got a lot of good ideas. We really do.
I know I am too. And every year we start like, or every season that we start the season, I write down all our ideas. I'm like, oh my God, we have so many good ideas.
Like they just are so good. So this one too, I'm really, really excited about. So hopefully you guys like the rebranding and are excited as much as we are for season four.
I'm gonna pull up my scripts here.
Well, today, guys, we figured we were gonna kick off things like we have every other time. It's our one-year anniversary. So what better way to celebrate our one-year anniversary than to talk about reproduction?
Because listen, there's more to it than just that, because we did, we talked about it. One, Valentine's Day, hello. Two, we did start off the podcast with the animal sex episode, and that is still, I mean, besides the intro, the animal sex one, and still, I have so many people that tell me that those are their funniest ones.
Well, because it is, it's crazy. So we wanted to talk today about how the animal kingdom has developed all sorts of wacky ways to reproduce.
And yeah, this is just...
Insanity, and Kim's comments as normal, on point.
Kim is... I don't even know how to describe Kim's comments half the time. Like, as far as just how...
It's exactly what I want to hear. Well, she's our audience. It's the only reaction we get from an audience.
But they're also so well written.
Well, like, because Kim's an editor.
And it's just so well done. Like, oh, man. Half the time, I laugh so hard at her comments.
Gosh, we will have Kim, I believe it's our next episode. We're going to have Kim back, because she's always a fan favorite. So, yeah, let's go ahead and let's dive into this.
Let's do it. Ready? Oh, disclaimer, as we did last time.
This episode will be talking about reproduction and animal sex. So if you have younger ears listening that aren't ready for such things, please leave them or watch these episodes. Because this one, we talk about things in a scientific way, but there are going to be so many puns and so many in you.
Okay, listen, my second one, though, I will give another disclaimer because you just can't, children cannot listen to my second one. I feel, and you know I have no shame in talking about this topic, but my second one, I will get there. I will give another disclaimer.
But yes, we talk about it in a scientific way. However, little ears. Yeah, many ears and little ears should leave the room at this time.
Or others.
Is grandma still listening?
I don't know if grandma's still listening. Ruth, Ruth, you're listening. Please.
We apologize now.
I'm so sorry, grandma. I love my grandma. Alrighty.
Do you want to go first, Laura?
I don't care, sure. Go for it. Alright, I am going to start alphabetically.
So we're going to start with the anglerfish.
This is one that I had picked.
I was wondering if this is the one.
This is the one that I had picked too.
Because it's freaking weird. So I was not surprised that you had probably looked at it. Okay, so remember we're talking about wacky ways of reproduction.
It doesn't get much weirder than the anglerfish.
Dude, I think I have you topped, but continue.
Most people are familiar with anglerfish in that they are deep sea dwelling fish with giant teeth and one of those glowing lures on their foreheads, finding Nemo, you know, stuff like that. What they probably aren't familiar with is how anglerfish mate, specifically those of the suborder Saratoy Day.
I didn't know that it was just to one suborder though.
Yeah, and I didn't do that much research into it. But it's a specific species.
Oh, interesting.
I'm not going to get that into the weeds. So if you thought that these fish look like something out of a nightmare, you would be correct.
It's actually accurate, yeah.
But even scarier is their sex life.
First of all, males and females show extreme sexual dimorphism, meaning that they look very different from one another. Males are itty bitty tiny. So one species of anglerfish, the male is one of the smallest living vertebrates on planet Earth.
So vertebrate being backbone, tiniest little animal with a backbone. Another species, the female is sixty times longer and half a million times heavier than her husband.
That's insane.
Or her mate.
That's insane.
Yeah. So females are giant and get the huge teeth in the lure. Males do not.
So the Finding Nemo episode, that was actually the female that you saw in the episode.
Males get big eyes, big noses, and just two pincher-like teeth. Definitely everyone who's listening, if you have the opportunity, just Google pictures because it's going to help.
Always Google pictures.
All of these characteristics that the male has helps him to find a mate, which is their entire purpose of life. So big eyes to look, or big noses to smell, and then the two pincher-like teeth.
Not to attract. Not to attract them.
Correct. Once these creepy little guys find a female, they attach themselves to her with those pincher-like teeth, upside down, usually on her stomach. Okay, kinky, but here is where things-
I was going to say, I imagine just being like, You know what I mean?
And like, ow. But yeah, to each their own. But here is where things get real bizarre.
Some of the species, they just fight, latch on, do the thing, leave. But not all of the species. Some of them, their tissues fuse together.
That's so gross.
I know, and their circulatory systems actually interconnect.
That's a bit much.
The two have become one.
Literally.
But I don't think very romantically, although Kim says I shouldn't be shaming them or anything.
Don't shame the anglerfish.
Scientists still actually don't know how this happens, like how the tissues fuse. What they do know, which I think is just fascinating and I ever thought about, is that the only way that they can actually do this, not the tissue part, but the whole combining into one organism thing, it's because these fish lack a large portion of their immune system so that they don't reject each other's bodies. When you get an organ transplant, you have to take immunosuppressant drugs and everything, because your body's like, eh, eh.
These fish just don't have that part of their immune system so that they can fuse.
I mean, I guess that makes sense, but...
Oh, yeah. And to what degree they've lost that immune system depends on how long their bond is with the, like, if it's catch and release or if it's fused together for life. And how many males are attached, because it's not always just one.
That takes a level of, like, a leech. You know what I mean?
Like a leech to a whole other level. And so far, they have never discovered another species of animal like this that has sacrificed its immune system in this way.
I was... Okay, what's the Disney movie Inside Out? Where, uh, have you seen it?
Yeah, oh yeah.
Where they're at the end and it's like the boy, it was like, I love you, I will sacrifice... And it's the same thing, he's like, I will sacrifice my immune system for you. Like, can you imagine if that's like a, uh, just kicking it up a notch commitment?
Oh, right, and dumb, because you're way more susceptible to disease, right?
Oh man, yeah, before you, mate, gosh.
Yeah, so once this guy has fused, he's stuck there forever, okay? And Kim's comment is, oh God, why?
So once he's stuck to her, and their circulatory systems are intertwined, sometimes he gets bigger and lives as long as the female does. Other ones, I just, this is a direct quote because it's just so good from the article I read. It's a New York Times article.
Dr. Pich, Pich, P-I-E-T-S-C-H says, Their innards rapidly atrophy until little more is left than a bulbous pair of testes fringed with gills protruding from the female's flank with a sperm-filled saddlebag. There's basically no integrity at this point.
I just love that he says there's no integrity. They've lost all integrity.
Yeah, there's no integrity.
A sperm-filled saddlebag. He's an accessory.
Yeah, right?
This whole thing is a form of sexual parasitism.
A little bit, yeah.
As it sounds. So what sucks is the female is the host, and she has zero choice in males. Like, this is not like she just tolerates it because she needs to.
They just latch on.
They just latch on and never let go sometimes. In some species, she may even have to put up with multiple men, up to eight of them, attached to her, which makes me want to puke.
Yeah, and consent, come on.
Nope, there is none.
None. Well, it just makes me want to barf because it's almost like they're little growths all over her.
Yeah, just constant growths that won't go away, won't leave you alone.
Testy growths.
It's time to mate. The females release eggs, and the males release sperm at the same time because fish have external fertilization for anyone who doesn't know. They're releasing them in sync, and they do this probably by communicating through hormones.
Because essentially, he is no longer him, he is her, and she's like, okay, it's time to release. In some species, this is obligatory parasitism, meaning that if the males don't attach, they'll die and won't ever become sexually mature. So they got to find a lady to attach, or that's it.
Although once they attach, that's pretty much it anyway. So why do they have a sex life like this? No one's ever asked them, so there's that.
But theoretically, scientifically speaking, in the deep dark depths, there are very little resources, and it's really hard to find another fish. So when you find love, you gotta latch on to it. You really gotta hang on to it.
There is no leaving. No leaving.
Not all seratoid anglerfish are parasitic. Like I said, some just latch on and leave, which is what I would vote for if I had the option as an anglerfish.
Yeah, just a little while.
But yeah, that is some species of anglerfish. Obligatory parasitism.
Tenning. Yeah, just no choice in the matter.
Gross. And now I hope that all of our listeners, if anybody does ever, and I don't wish this on anyone, but if you do ever get into what you feel is a parasitic relationship with another human being, please refer to them as an anglerfish.
Yes, you anglerfish, and then they have to go research it.
Yeah.
All righty. Are you good? Are you done?
Yep, that's the anglerfish.
All right. So my first one that I will be talking about are crocodilians, crocodile alligators.
Ooh.
Yeah. And this one, this is oddly...
I didn't think they had weird... I'm ready.
Well, wait. So it's not... It is...
It's different. It's different, but there's a part of it that's very different. You'll see.
So even though I haven't really talked about crocs a lot, they are a species that I really like, that I found fascinating.
Living dinosaurs. I mean...
Living dinosaurs for sure. So let's just go ahead and dive right into it.
All right. So crocodilians as a whole can be found all over the world. Alligators thrive anywhere from China, the southeast portion of the US and particularly Florida, of course, which is where we find most of our alligator species here and a lot of the states along the Gulf Coast.
Crocodiles are native to north, central, and south America, Africa, Australia, and various parts of Asia. I did not know, though, that the only place where the two truly cross is in Florida, because we have both crocodiles and alligators there.
I thought the Gulf, but I didn't know Florida.
Yeah. Yeah, because the American crocodile really is only found in Florida.
It's like endangered, right? I'm pretty sure.
I think it is, yeah. But yeah, so the only way to tell them apart is to not, because you're too close if you do. But, like Laura said, if you're looking at a pitcher or through binoculars, alligators have short, rounder snouts where crocs are much longer, narrower.
And is the alligator with the overbite and the crocodiles have both? Something to do with the teeth.
Interlocks. Yeah, I think the croc is the one that interlocks. I always go by the snout.
The snout is always the easiest way for me to be able to tell. So they are exclusively carnivores, eating only meat, but plants have been found in their stomachs. However, it's probably just secondary.
Yeah, because they're just like, grab crap, whatever they can, from the shoreline, and they can grab branches, grass, whatever in there. So crocs have a long lifespan, for the most part. Alligators typically live 30 to 50-ish years.
Crocs, upwards of 70 years, some species, some species, I should say. But just like every other animal, most of them die long before their 10th birthday. And there are many things that go against crocodiles, mostly people, of course, but also other crocs.
And I don't know if you've ever seen the pictures of a crocodile with like half their jaw ripped off.
Oh, yeah, I saw one rip another one's leg off.
This part of our show brought to you by Bucky's 12 Flavor Gummy Bears. Bucky's is like a big... Can you shut the door, Ben?
Thanks. Bucky's is like a big gas station down here, but it sounds way better than just calling it a gas... It's a paradise, essentially.
So, shout out to Bucky's. Anyone who's in Texas will understand. Continuing.
But yes, they have like half a jaw, limbs missing, and they all just survive. Because again, they're freaking dinosaurs, and they don't care what they need to put up with. But, you know, they won't breed until, of course, just like everything else, they won't breed until they reach sexual maturity.
And the maturity part is determined by age and size. So, according to the Department of Western Australia Department of Fisheries, male crocodiles are sexually mature when they, when the snout reaches about 160 centimeters and female 110. Which I had no, I had no idea that it was...
That's mean either. That's so specific.
So specific.
Like matters for crocs.
Apparently in length of the snout, no less, you know?
Yeah.
So freshwater crocs...
Can you imagine looking at a dude's nose and being like sexually mature?
Got you. Freshwater crocs are not as large, and males reach maturity at 2 meters long overall, and females at 1.5 meters. Which makes sense, because saltwater crocs are huge.
Deceptively. Like, yeah, you see saltwater crocs on TV and stuff. When you see them in person, you're like, that creature has no business being that big.
Well, plus, they don't look that big until they're eating like a zebra. Yeah, and then you're like, then they look big. Yeah, huge.
Anyway, well, not so big. I'm gonna have to call you out, because technically a saltwater croc does live in Australia, so they wouldn't be eating a zebra.
Oh, because they're... Nile crocs. Nile crocs, I'm sorry.
Gosh, saltwater crocs, I believe, I believe are bigger. Yeah, they're huge. Holy crap.
We'll have to look. All right, so the breeding seasons, of course, crocodilians, because they can be found all over the world, but only like so far off the equator. The breeding season varies based on the type of crocodile and geographical location.
Freshwater crocs... I didn't know this. Freshwater crocs breed during the dry season, and saltwater crocs breed during the wet season.
So it's opposite of each other. I never knew that. I don't know how I didn't know that.
So let's talk about the actual breeding process itself.
Yes.
It begins with mature males staking out of territory. The males will posture and define their area. In rare instances, they will actually fight over territory.
Yeah, they will, but it's...
No, I mean just the whole territory fighting.
Yeah, of animals. But with crocs, if they can find some place that's not already claimed, that's typically where they're going to go. But they do, I mean, obviously half a jaw missing.
They do definitely run into fights. So the mating dance itself involves almost all of the senses. Which, I mean, that's a pretty cool experience.
Yeah, yeah, sensually.
Yeah, and it hits all of the senses. So males will begin by bellowing above the water, producing a low-frequency infrasound, which humans can't hear all of the sounds they're making, but we can, to some extent, hear the bellowing, which is like a low growl. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which also, let's just pause to appreciate that. Like, if a guy came up to you, too, and was like, has a big nose, and is like grrrrrrrrrr.
I don't know. I mean, the growl is pretty masculine. I don't know about the nose part, but the bellowing could be a...
The growl could be a...
Laura, what do you find attractive in a man? His growl.
I do like, I mean, deep voices.
Yeah, no, I can agree with that. It definitely has a lot to do with their voice. But a growl...
I guess it would have to depend...
Context. Context is everything.
Context is everything. I mean, never mind.
I was going to say... I mean, not a dark alley in a man's growl. No reproduction happening.
It depends on when he would growl versus when he would not growl. So let's just keep going with the human versus crocodile visualizations here.
Absolutely.
Because this is going to get good here in a second. So males also then start, after they're bellowing... And they do this really cool thing too, where...
I know alligators do it, where it almost looks like water is dancing. Because of the bellowing, it like tickles, and it looks like the water is dancing above them. It is pretty cool.
Like Placid, that giant crocodile movie.
Well, I mean, it happens in reality too.
Yeah, that's how I knew it happened.
It is really cool. But, so, visualize this. So male crocodiles then may also slap their snouts on the water, and blow water from their nose, or perform certain arched postures.
Arched?
Not only is it yoga, but it's also like slapping a face into water. Blowing bubbles from their noses. And arching.
And at closer ranges, if the female is nearby, because all this is like bring the female in, like come on, like do you find this enticing? Come here.
I hear smacking. What's going on?
I hear smacking. What must be happening over there? I hear growling, and somebody headbutting the water.
But at closer ranges, if the female is even closer, they may release an oily musk, which floats on the surface of the water, to further be like come here.
Yeah.
Come here. Which this one, you know, as glad as you are that human males don't release, you know, an oily musk.
But who doesn't like a good smelling cologne or something?
But at the same time, they have done studies of human body. The human body odor and how they did it, like comfort of someone that you're related to versus someone that you're not. And so you do find natural body odor, some more attractive than others.
Absolutely.
So they have done that. So it might not be an oily musk. Thankfully.
Some of the water, yeah. But there is a musk to it.
Hang on. Buddy, what's wrong? Lucas, come here.
Lucas.
What are you doing?
What are you doing? What's wrong? You OK?
What are you talking about? OK.
It wasn't just that, but whatever.
I know. I heard his voice.
Yeah, like anyway.
If she chooses the male or not, if not, she just moves on. If she does like him, though, the male will start leading, you know, the male who's leading the whole shebang of this. And the female is participating with her own set of auditory, visual and olfactory signals during the time as well.
So, and the pair is in constant communication from start to finish, which men learn a few things from the croc species. Communicate, communicate, communicate more. Doesn't hurt.
So, once they do meet up, they tenderly rub noses and their snouts. Yeah, right. They rub their snouts and backs, which is kind of funny.
They rub one another or blow bubbles. Because why not?
Messaging is an essential step.
Right? And blowing bubbles. So, don't knock it too tight, folks.
So, when the couple is ready for business, sometimes after several hours of courtship, they'll twist around each other, trying to align their cloaca, which, if you've heard our other episodes, we've definitely talked about cloacas, but it's a waste and reproductive...
Hole.
Orifice hole. A catch-all hole.
A catch-all hole.
Ew, that's so gross. So, seconds after alignment of their catch-all holes, the male inseminates the female with his hidden penis. So, let's...
Side note here.
Well, we're going to pause and talk about this hidden penis.
Okay.
So, are you going to talk about the hidden penis?
Well, yeah.
Do you want me to go through it, and then you can hold your thought?
Sure, sure. Don't worry, I'll be able to hold it.
Okay, hopefully. All right. Now, we're gonna talk about this, the male's penile unit here for a second.
Well, and the hilariously descriptive article from Nat Geo, which was freaking gold. So here's what they've said about it. They said, here are the highlights.
It's permanently erect, and it shoots out like toothpaste from a tube, and it bounces back, because basically has a rubber band attached to it.
Bounces back. So the whole...
It's...
The sound effects.
I couldn't...
I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.
Man, why can't life be more like a cartoon sometimes? But also like two huge crocodiles, which could kill each other.
These crazy beasts. Yeah. And that's just ridiculous.
But also like toothpaste from a tube?
Yeah, that's just nasty.
Ah, so the whole structure is filled with dense layers of stiff protein of collagen. Even like the center where the blood would normally flow to erect it, it's just collagen. And collagen, collagen, more collagen.
So and the male penis, it has absolutely no-
Versus the female one.
Yeah, has no muscles attached to it whatsoever. And it's almost free floating. So one pair of muscles though, the levator cloaca, cradles the penis like a sling, but it doesn't actually connect it.
Wait, okay, but it is not free floating. There's something attached.
Not?
Yes, it has to be. It can't just come out and like it has to come back in.
Okay, so there's a researcher, because it's been difficult to study because studying live specimens versus dead, like how do you study live specimens to get really up in, you know what I mean, to get really up in there? It's difficult. So they can do dead in like electroshock to like see muscle tensile, but still you can only do so much there.
So, but one scientist thinks that when the levator cloaca contracts, it forces the penis out by squeezing the cloaca chamber.
Yeah.
Hence the toothpaste comment.
Yeah.
So it's kind of like clinging out there. And just like when it goes like, hmm, it, yeah, that's how it gets out there.
And relaxes and it comes back in.
Pretty much. Which it was this point in my script writing that I realized that this whole thing is just so bizarre that I spend my free time researching this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no regrets, no regrets whatsoever.
So anyway, the gator weenie, it has a tendon that does get to the middle of it, which so far has been the only connection point that they know of. So it connects to the middle point, which the only thing it helps is to help to swivel it forward, to like plop it out, and its base is attached to the hip bone by a pair of large ligaments, which again, these ligaments, it's what they described it as, it has the consistency of a big rubber band that the post-op uses.
Interesting.
Which I was like, I mean, I know exactly which post-op is rubber bands, she's talking about. So those are the only two connection points, but it's more of like a connection point to hold on, to make sure it doesn't just like shoot off and go back. Which I mean, one and done, if that was the case.
So as soon as the levator then relaxes, the elastic ligaments then yanks it back in and copulation is done. So I was just going to say after that, they're done mating, they can mate several times over a few days, but it's certainly not exclusive because the female will go around and do this with several other males and one clutch could have several different DNA in it.
That's cool.
Yeah, so that's crocodilian mating. What were you going to say?
I was going to say that I've felt it. All right, little sirs, don't judge me too harshly here.
All right, I was just going to say. That's not what I was expecting you to say. I am so excited.
When I was a zookeeper, they were moving the alligators in for the winter, and they wanted to sex them all because they weren't a male, a female, a male, or a female.
I'm sex a croc, too.
So yeah, you just shove your hand up in the cloaca. Wiggle your fingers around and feel that weird penis.
Which is basically, if you feel something, it's a male.
Yes, exactly. I was like, how will I know? And they're like, it'll just feel like something's in there.
Yeah. If you feel something, it's a male. If you don't feel anything, it's a female.
But yeah, that's the only way to, I've sexed quite a few crocodiles.
Yeah, you think so, too.
Yeah. But I wouldn't have described it. Or that people describe it as toothpaste.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no.
Yeah. Gosh. All right.
That was weird.
Wasn't it?
Yeah, but cool.
Yeah, and that's the thing is, I knew about the bellowing, I knew that the whole mating ritual, I knew about the mustard, I knew all that. I knew about the Toothpaste.
I knew the study of the hemipene or whatever suropene is, so whatever they call it.
One more. This one is even weirder.
For you, and then I have one.
Yeah, yeah. This one's even weirder, in my opinion. So we're with A, and we're going to B for barnacles.
At this point, listeners are like, barnacles? Like, come on, man. How weird can barnacles be?
We're talking about those little things that grow on pilings on a dock in the water. Yeah, that's what we're talking about.
Barnacles.
Barnacles. So imagine the difficulties of mating when you are permanently stuck in one place, okay? Plants have figured it out, but animals, usually, if they're stuck in one place, and the term for that is sessile, usually they release their eggs and sperm into the water and just hope for the best.
That's what coral does. But this isn't super efficient because you don't actually know if anything's gonna work. It all depends on like ocean currents.
So barnacles thought they could do it better. But thus developed an enormous prehensile penis.
Barnacles, man. Who would have thought the most round down?
Wildest, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that barnacles had the longest penis to body size of any animal.
I mean.
By, okay. We're gonna talk about how big.
How's this? I hope you're gonna compare them because that's what I'm excited about.
Oh, we are. And Kim is comments just nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Let's hear it. How demolished are these female barnacles?
Well, they're hermaphrodites.
Oh, nevermind.
Oh, that's right.
They are hermaphrodites.
So, I mean, yeah, but. Longest penis to body length. And that would be eight times their length, which, okay, for a barnacle, it's just a few inches.
But listen to this. I did the calculations. I'm laying in bed at night.
Because I have had to go to bed pretty early. So I'm laying in bed in a dark room. My baby's in the bassinet, and I am doing calculations to figure out barnacle size compared to human size.
I was gonna say, please tell me human size.
So the average man is five foot nine. If their penis was eight times their length, it would be 46 feet long, which is the size of a Habeck whale.
That's where Kim goes, no, no. I like that.
Okay, first of all, excessive. I mean, I get why for a barnacle, but for a human, uncalled for, just a little excessive.
Okay, in my head, my-
Can you imagine the tripping that would go on? I'm just anywhere.
It's just insane. But in my head-
Eating my kid's leftover snack Lunchable, continue to talk about.
Yeah, barnacle penises. I feel like everybody has, well, maybe not, maybe this is just the way I think of things. When it comes to size, I'm not very good at estimating, so I have certain measurements that I automatically know in my head.
My front porch as a kid was 30 feet long. So when I did big measurements-
Okay, hold on, pause. How did you know that your porch was 30 feet long?
My mom. When we redid the porch or something, my mom would talk about it and that it was that long. And that just stuck in your brain all these years?
And that was her benchmark for how far away something was. It's longer than our front porch. So now that is also how I am.
So this penis is like one and a half times my front porch, so I'm just imagining a dude standing at one end and his penis extending to the next door neighbor's house.
Just, and prehensile, guys, remember, means it can move on its own. So all of a sudden, it's like another arm coming out of your house, you're locking your door for the day, and you tap on your shoulder, and it's your neighbor's penis.
Hey, neighbor.
Okay, sorry. Anyway, I'm getting a little excitable.
And see, the example that I would have given would not have been your neighbor tapping on your shoulder. There's a hundred other examples like it, again, for the usefulness of a prehensile penis. And you're tapping on your neighbor's shoulder.
Well, essentially, that's what the barnacle's doing, because they're trying to reach their neighbor, who's a hermaphrodite, and hoping that they will be... So, not only is this insanely long penis prehensile, it is also covered in chemosensory bristles, okay? That means chemosensory meaning chemical sensing.
So like, you know, if there's like chemicals in the water that the other barnacles release, like hormones and stuff. So since barnacles are hermaphroditic, some may act as males and others females. The penis senses chemicals given off by the ones acting as female at the time, and go in that direction.
So it's like a nose and a penis combined.
They're just like floating out there like, oh, female over there.
Yep, yep, yep, yep. Weirdness does not end here. Scientists, this is just where it gets absurd.
Scientists have discovered that the penises are affected by water conditions. I'm afraid for you drinking while I'm talking about.
That's why I took a sip before you took another. I was like, I gotta hurry up and get another swish in here. I gotta wash down that pizza lunchable before we continue.
So, they're affected by water conditions. How? Well, barnacles that live in calm water have very long, flexible penis, and they have lots of different mates.
If they live in rough water, they have short, thick penises. Can't. And according, this is what the article, I couldn't sum it up better than the article, which is from Wired, says, they are stronger and less likely to break or wave around in the surf, and more likely to successfully reach nearby mates.
What, you gotta worry about your penis breaking off in the water or in the surf?
I mean, I would be worried too, is it?
Yes, but wow. I mean, barnacles, they come in all shapes and sizes, and some are the short and thick are just as useful as long and flexible. Or tap it on your neighbor's shoulder.
And this is not like, okay, this poor barnacle is stuck with a short, thick penis for life, no. Because guess what? Barnacles regrow their penises every year.
What?
Yeah, and I actually found out that's not the only animal that does that, but that's neither here nor there.
We have to circle back to that at some point.
You can just leave us hanging. It's the duck. It's the duck.
Wait, what?
Yes! Apparently, ducks grow new penises every year, like antlers. Pause!
Right?
Are we sure?
I don't know. I researched it right before this episode, because Kim's question is, I'm sorry, we're missing an important part here. What happens to the penis at the end of the year?
Yes.
Do they shed them? Are you telling me that's just to use barnacle penises floating around in the ocean? Do I see them in barnacle penises?
Duck penises regrow every mating season.
Yes. I told you. Never.
That's what I thought.
How have I missed this all my life?
I know. How can that not come up in ornithology? But anyway, Kim, I couldn't find the answer to your question.
I am assuming yes, they do just float around in the ocean, and yes, you are swimming in barnacle penises.
Maybe for the barnacle, but ducks. Once the season ends, the penis begins to shrink and regress until it's 10% of its full grown size. They are stored in the duck's body, waiting to emerge only during copulation.
Wow, talking about not wasting resources. I don't know about the barnacle. Maybe they break off.
I mean, think about it. There's no way it could, no, the duck's is contained, okay? A duck's penis is a proper length.
A barnacle penis is excessive, and there is no way that a penis eight times its length is ever coming back in to atrophy. It is just breaking off and floating free in the ocean. Which, wow, talk about liberating, like, done with that, gone.
And know that you're gonna get a new one next year, and who knows what's gonna be like.
Yeah, because it doesn't matter.
Yeah, because-
It could be short and stubby, or it could be long and-
If the water changes or they move to another location, their penis will change the following year. Their penis is also affected by how densely packed together they are. So-
Makes sense, yeah. The acorn barnacle, which is usually the species that people are talking about here with this regrowing and things like that, they actually have folds in their crazy penis that helps them to stretch like an accordion. And the further apart they are, the more folds they have because they need to stretch further.
It makes sense.
So yeah, like they've got-
I also feel like we could have sound effects here though, too, like-
I don't know, this one would be- I need like a squeak, the squeak of a-
The squeak of a-
I don't know.
Spring? I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, something like that. So, some barnacles that live too far away from their neighbors to reach practice sperm casting, which is like what coral do. But also-
I just like it, sperm casting.
Yeah, cause imagine, I'm just imagining somebody playing like with dice. Which is exactly how people mimic this action all the time. But it is actually sperm casting.
This is when they really sperm into the water and the females capture it. These are the first crustaceans known to do this, because a barnacle is a crustacean, which I actually didn't even know. And so coral do it, but they're not.
So, they're first crustaceans. And that's the barnacle, guys. Well, guys, entertain your friends with that one.
And I assure you, any men listening out there, I promise you that no lady out there wishes that you had a penis as long as a barnacle's.
It's just-
Comparatively.
It's just too much. Like, there's nowhere for it to go. Like, you can only-
Too long to handle.
Yeah, you can only go so-
Just terrifying, really. I'd go in the other direction.
Well, there's nothing for it to do. Like, most of it. You know what I mean?
Like, there's nothing.
Especially if it had, like, a nose on it and, like, all of that, like, no. No, no, no, no. All right, Katy, you better finish up with your last one.
Listen.
I'm scared.
Listen, we have both talked about this numerous times, but we have not talked about this animal.
Okay, as long as it's not the duck. It's not the duck.
It's not the duck.
You would have found out about that. The duck, I would have thought about covering it, but it's actually so awful of an animal, as far as we know. I didn't want to bring it up.
It is, yeah. Well, the duck with its spiral penis and stuff. But anyway, this is one that we both talked about that I am highly creeped out about, but we have to talk about.
We have to address the non-elephant but the elephant in the room.
Yes, okay, good.
It's gonna be the holy bejeebers of all sex animals that freak me out, bonobos. It's, but we have to address it because we've hinted around about it.
I thought you were gonna bring up the elephant because he's-
Oh, no, no. The elephant in the room that's not the elephant. Yeah, no bonobos, guys.
It's, we just, we've done so many sex episodes. We have to finally just get it out there. Just talk about bonobos and huh.
And I do feel like talking about bonobo sex is where I cross the line of being comfortable in talking about animal sex, but we'll get there. Okay, so bonobos are found in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And like other great apes, they too are endangered.
So for a while though, scientists thought bonobos and chimps were the same, and they did end up separating them after further studying several of the oddities that they do. But mostly is they have much more slender, longer legs. They have smaller heads than chimps.
And overall just look way more human-like, which freaks the crap out of me.
Because they don't have the hair, it always seems like.
No, they definitely don't. And yeah, the slenderness of the, I don't know, they creep me out.
Yeah, they're super creepy. Whole other proportion.
All right, so let's, the sex part, which is the whole point of this episode. Unlike chimps who have social society a little more similar to humans, bonobos are the definition of make love not war. Yeah.
So what is essential life? Food. What do bonobos like to mix with food?
Sex. So a lot of people. Right?
To eat to their own. So sex is the key aspect for bonobo life. Like sex is life for bonobos.
And one study done in the mid 50s by European zoologists, they compared chimps to having sex more like dogs, whereas bonobos did treat sex more like people when they do face-to-face copulation.
What?
Yes, so in the 50s, that was, they would not-
They did it face-to-face.
Yeah, so in the 50s though, they thought that like scientists in general thought that humans were the only ones to do face-to-face copulation, which there are still other animals that we know of today that do face-to-face, but it's not for like psychological purposes. It's mostly structural. Like they have to do it face-to-face.
It's not a psychological effect of it. But bonobos are different. They do face-to-face copulation because they want to do it.
They want to look at each other.
They want to look at each other, which is creepy, that face creepy anyway.
So creepy, but also kind of romantic.
Well, just, hold on, hold on to your horses here. So bonobos though become extremely sexual, sexually aroused by, like remarkably easy, and they can express this excitement in a variety of mounting positions and genital contacts. So although chimpanzees virtually never do face-to-face copulation, bonobos do so in one of three copulations, typical copulations of the wild.
Another similarity that they have with humans is increased female sexual receptivity. Nice. So unlike chimps and a lot of other animals that they can only reproduce during a certain period of time, it's often very short.
Bonobos also like chimps. The female genitalia will go ahead and it'll swell to let them know that like, hey, this is the time. This is when I want to do it.
With bonobos, it covers a much longer part of the estrus period than in chimpanzees. And instead of just a few days out of our cycle, the female bonobo is almost continuously sexually ready to have it. Like, almost continuously.
It does not care what time of the month it is. She's like, bring it, just come on. So another unique sexual aspect of bonobos are like I mentioned earlier, the genital rubbing.
Just, again, kind of like humans are like, it feels good, so let's do it. Females, though, will do this in such like, they will like caress each other and sit face to face and just like rub, genital and genital.
This whole thing is very like, like what you're thinking like free love, like 70s.
Yes, it's bonobos, man. So which females, if you think about it though, is that female, that is very a female thing. Like I want to be held, I want to be caressed.
Yeah.
Males. This one, LOL. Male bonobos also engage in the pseudo-copulation, but generally perform a variation of it.
You know, females want to sit and be held, not males. Males will either stand back to back, one male briefly rubbing his scrotum against the buttocks of another, or they also practice what is called penis fencing in which two males hang from a branch and just rub their erect penises together, which is totally sounds like a man thing to do. Like females caressing each other.
Like little boys?
Yes.
Come on.
Like just fighting. Think as they can. So just like in the trees, just like...
Yeah. Like I feel like any little boy you could ask has done something like that.
Just battle royaling it out with their digs. Like, can't. Where females are like, I want to be held.
They're like, let's do this. And just hang it from the trees. So the other aspect of bonobo sex, and it's sporadic oral sex, and they will massage another individual's genitalia, intense tongue-licking.
It's okay.
For bonobos, it's gonna make me blush.
It's getting awkward. That's what I'm saying. We have to finally address it because you've hit it around about it so many times.
It's bizarre. I mean, well, it's bonobos, but it's humans too, and that's what makes it so awkward.
It's not at all bizarre. That's what makes it so creepy.
That's what makes it awkward. So, but to bonobos though, as weird as uncomfortable it can be for us. To bonobos, it's not weird at all.
But it's so much so. It's like a casual way of life. Bonobos have been straight up known to trade food for oral sex.
And it's like, what else? They don't care. And it isn't just in zoos.
It's in the wild, too, where they'll like find a huge food source and then break out into one big orgy. Like, oh, figs, like, let's get it on. And everybody just has sex because they're so excited about these figs.
Which Kim then inserted a story here. So she goes, apes and primates are right past the welcome center. And this is at the Milwaukee Zoo, she said.
We walk in and two bonobos are just nailing each other on the glass. There were quite a few people in this area and watching people freak the F out that these apes are just banging their brains out was an act of horror comedy. Parents shielding their kids' eyes, someone asking, what are they doing?
Oh, no!
Grown men with a complex taking one look and bolting out of there. It was an excellent zoo day. Thank you, Kim, for your personal bonobo sex story.
So, but even that, though, is so normal and so part of their everyday life that copulation spells...
It's how they even resolve conflict, right?
Yeah, yeah. But it lasts 13 seconds and then just...
Oh, snap.
Done. Yep, so it's not like... Even though...
It's almost like if you were a sex addict, I guess you would say, you know where it just becomes so like, meh, another part of my day. Like, whatever, 13 seconds and done. Which, no thank you.
So, it's so much so...
Unless the 13 seconds was all it needed.
You'd have to be real good.
No, I know, but maybe they're designed to be that way.
I mean, maybe. Maybe those male bonobos know something that human males haven't figured out, and it's just...
Or like, I'm saying like the receptivity, like the sensitivity of a female would be...
No, that's what I'm saying. Like, maybe they just have... Like, maybe they're on to something that just...
Human males don't. But it's also so excitable that if two male bonobos can even approach a cardboard box that's been thrown in their enclosure in the zoo, they will briefly mount each other before playing with the box. So like, it literally is like anytime they get any sort of excitement, they're like, let's do it.
Yeah. And get it out of their system.
I wonder if it's like scientifically, like, why did it become this way? I wonder if it's, you know, how like emotions take energy? I wonder if this is nature's way of being like, we have to quickly regulate the emotions here.
You're too excitable, you gotta calm down.
It's why you want to punch something that's cute, because your brain, it's so much cuteness, you want to take an act of aggression. It's why they used to say that like ants or whatever would pinch a baby's cheeks. Where people pinch a baby's cheeks is because it's so cute, it's like an act of aggression to balance your brain out.
Right, that's what it's like, because they're such an excitable species, this is the only way that they can say they can release it. I need to calm down.
Orgy, massive orgy. Fuck, but that's it. That's all I have about bonobos.
I mean, I could have got into so much more, but it gets...
Oh, I'm sure, because I know that isn't like... Even chimps use sex as a way to gain dominance and like social hierarchy.
No, bonobos just do it to do it. But I'm just gonna... We're gonna go ahead and pause at the end of this episode, and I'm gonna go scrub my memory of researching any of these topics with bleach.
No. But it's just... I think, one, bonobos creep me out anyway, because they are so human looking.
And we have bonobos here at the Fort Worth Zoo, and I can't. Like, they're just so creepy. They're just so creepy looking.
And then just, like, yeah, drop of the hat, let's bang. Which, I mean, listen... Well, it's just...
Whatever, but...
It's a very interesting view of society and what it would be like. It reminds me of, remember, we were... What's the...
We episode we did last season where I was talking about that machine. It was The Mad Scientist. It was our last episode, and my scientist created the orgasmatron and was talking about the only way to have the sex...
He can turn the coin sexual rebellion, and his idea was that to be mentally healthy, you have to constantly be orgasming. I mean, probably.
They don't have like a... Like I'd be really curious to see who's the more violent society, chimps or bonobos. I would definitely think it would be chimpanzees.
Oh, no, definitely. No, it definitely is. It definitely, definitely is.
Chimps are way more violent than bonobos. But for me, it would be more interesting because you can't really... Like, is it the pleasure?
Is there a pleasure aspect of it? Because there has to be. But, but, but, is the pleasure?
Because like for humans, there's the physical, the chemical, that is just a process of it. And some of it... And we talked about this book before, The Come As You Are.
I forget who the author is, but I mentioned that last time, which is an amazing, amazing book, and it goes into the psyche. And so for the most part, I mean, even human sex, it's a series of psychological, but it's chemicals. I mean, everything that we do is controlled by chemicals, hormones, electrical impulses, all that stuff.
And so I guess you can argue, like, is sex really pleasure? Or is, like, what defines pleasure? You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah.
Because everything we already do...
Is it all physical or is it there's this much mental end, like, the bonding?
Yeah, like the self-awareness of it, because I guess humans have that, that other animals don't.
However... Well, right, because they know the dolphins have sex for pleasure.
Exactly.
I mean, bonobos must have, I mean, surely.
It has to be some of it, for as much as they're doing it, for crying out loud. Besides, like, is for their sake. Yeah, right?
That it isn't just a brain-balancing thing.
Yeah.
But, yeah, guys, we had to talk about bonobos. We briefly talked about it before, but we got it, we had to just... Now it's out there in the world, and I am so sorry that I exposed you to creepy bonobos.
You will never look at a bonobo the same way ever again. But... Oh, bonobos, man.
Weird, weird animals.
Yeah.
All right, guys, that's it. We are going to go ahead and put this video on Patreon, so make sure you hop over to Patreon, search For the Love of Nature podcast. Go ahead and follow us on social media, even though not a ton of fun stuff happens over there.
It's just social media. It's one of those things that...
Reach out to us on Twitter.
Yeah, Twitter is probably one of the easiest ways, I would say, to be talking back and forth.
And stay tuned for the rest of season four. There's a lot of good stuff coming.
I am so excited for the rest of season four. I really am. And I know I say this every season, that I feel like our topic choices get better and better.
But I don't know. I feel like this time it might actually... I definitely...
I feel like it's topped every other season. Yeah. So we'll see.
We'll see what everybody else says. All right, everybody, that's it for this episode. We will talk to you next time.
Bye, everyone.